memorial tomb or grave ?

twinkletoes

The JW bible states at John 5:28

...all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice and come out....

This scripture was used (by JWs) to show that ONLY those in God's memory would be due a resurrection.

In our recent independant research, using 4 other bibles, this is how that same scripture was translated -

...all those in the GRAVE will hear his voice and come out...

Why did they (The Society) have to add to this scripture, giving a totally different meaning to the original understanding.

Bibles used were

King James

Philips New Testament

Good News

New International

Your thoughts on the matter would be appreciated.

Twink

Dansk

Why did they (The Society) have to add to this scripture, giving a totally different meaning to the original understanding.

Because they're a lying, cheating bunch of bastards!!

Dansk - who's feeling really pissed off!

hooberus

Why did they (The Society) have to add to this scripture, giving a totally different meaning to the original understanding.

Because the Watchtower Society does not teach that dead bodies will be resurrected !

The Watchtower teaching is that the original body will remain forever in the grave rotting. Their concept of resurrection is that Jehovah will find some dirt somewhere else and re-create from scratch the person who died. This new person will look and act just like you, however the original body (and logically person) will remain dead forever.

According to Wt teaching all that person is is really their body (since they don't believe in an immortal soul) and since their body never will be resurrected, logically no witness who died will ever really live again, they will only be replaced by a new person who looks like them.

I recently shared this doctrine with a long-time witness who had always thought that his body would be resurrected. After he saw that this was no so, he was quite shocked. Its quite an experience to realize that your body will remaiin dead forever in the grave.

The watchtower religion is hopeless for those who have died.

The Bible however teaches the resurrection of the original body (in a restored state).

As a side note the NWT also translates Lazareth's grave as being a "memorial tomb" hense a literal grave, contrary to their standard doctrine that "memorial tomb" reallly means a memory center in God's mind and not a real grave.

hooberus

Why did they (The Society) have to add to this scripture, giving a totally different meaning to the original understanding.

Because the Watchtower Society does not teach that dead bodies will be resurrected !

The Watchtower teaching is that the original body will remain forever in the grave rotting. Their concept of resurrection is that Jehovah will find some dirt somewhere else and re-create from scratch the person who died. This new person will look and act just like you, however the original body (and logically person) will remain dead forever.

According to Wt teaching all that person is is really their body (since they don't believe in an immortal soul) and since their body never will be resurrected, logically no witness who died will ever really live again, they will only be replaced by a new person who looks like them.

I recently shared this doctrine with a long-time witness who had always thought that his body would be resurrected. After he saw that this was no so, he was quite shocked. Its quite an experience to realize that your body will remaiin dead forever in the grave.

The watchtower religion is hopeless for those who have died.

The Bible however teaches the resurrection of the original body (in a restored state).

As a side note the NWT also translates Lazareth's grave as being a "memorial tomb" hense a literal grave, contrary to their standard doctrine that "memorial tomb" reallly means a memory center in God's mind and not a real grave.

ozziepost

It's really good to see that you're thoroughly researching things, Twinkletoes. Makes me feel real good.

Now in regard to this:

Why did they (The Society) have to add to this scripture, giving a totally different meaning to the original understanding.

Because the Watchtower Society does not teach that dead bodies will be resurrected !

This is the crux of the matter. In reality, the Borg doesn't teach a resurrection for the "Great Crowd" but rather a re-creation. That's quite different, isn't it? In other words, a replica of you is to be re-made according to the WTS. I doubt that would be terribly encouraging, or "heartwarming" to those the dubs meet whilst going from door-to-door.

twinkletoes

thanks for your replies,

after 30 years of indoctrination, I can honestly say that I hadn't thought of it that way.

Well Ozzie, it looks like I've got a lot more researching to do.

I love this site :)

cheers

twink

heathen

If I remember correctly the WT claims that it would be impossible to ressurect the litteral bodies of everyone who ever lived because many people were cremated and there is not much left of most of the corpses for most of the dead .It's a matter of how you interpret the 2 folds of sheep as to whether you believe people will be resurected to an earthly existence for a chance at eternal life . Most other religions ignore the promise of an earhly paradise for human beings but instead insist that all the dead will be raised to a spirtual existence either to live in heaven or be punnished in an eternal hell fire . Since I have read the bible I can see the arguement for a symbolic memorial tomb vs. a litteral one . Revelations does mention 2 resurection and one of them taking place after the 1k years of christs rule from heaven and yet another war breaks out on earth , it also mentions the tree of life of which all will eat along the river that flows from New Jerusalem .

hooberus

If I remember correctly the WT claims that it would be impossible to ressurect the litteral bodies of everyone who ever lived because many people were cremated and there is not much left of most of the corpses for most of the dead .

Yes, this is what the WT teaches, however they are wrong in that God is able to resurrect a body from not many remains.

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Genesis 3:19

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2

ozziepost

G'day heathen,

Most other religions ignore the promise of an earhly paradise for human beings but instead insist that all the dead will be raised to a spirtual existence either to live in heaven or be punnished in an eternal hell fire . Since I have read the bible I can see the arguement for a symbolic memorial tomb vs. a litteral one . Revelations does mention 2 resurection and one of them taking place after the 1k years of christs rule from heaven and yet another war breaks out on earth , it also mentions the tree of life of which all will eat along the river that flows from New Jerusalem .

I assume by the phrase "other religions" you are meaning "denominations". Apart from that bit of semantics, I feel you are right but only 'up to a point'; your conclusions differ from mine. You see, we shouldn't read into the Bible more than it says. Revelation (not "Revelations") is written in an apocalyptic style i.e. not literal, but full of allegories etc. This is why the Borg has great difficulty with interpreting the 144,000 being a literal number for in the very same verses they claim that the "interpretation" should be figurative. So we shouldn't read into the text more than it actually says.

Evangelical Christians (like Mrs Ozzie and I) take the Bible as the word of God and in reading the Bible understand the texts to be read in context. For example, "What will happen to us when we die?" leaves much 'unsaid' in the Bible. Where we will be, we don't know. Our desire is to be "with the Lord". That has always been the Christian hope. Peter writes of a "new heavens and a new earth". The Borg claims this is figurative ...but is it really? "We don't know" is the honest answer.

So it's not true to say that "Most other religions ignore the promise of an earthly paradise". It would be more accurate to say that orthodox Christian belief allows for an earthly paradise but does not 'go beyond the words written' in its teachings.

Cheers, Ozzie

gumby

In reality......their "guess"........ is as good as any other believer.

What "type" of bodies will those who will reign on the earth with christ as the fundies believe( not the dubs) for the 1000 years after they have been RAPTURED first with heavenly bodies?

What about those who come to live AFTER the 1000 years.....as the fundies believe(not the dubs only)?

There is so much "guess work" in this resurrection stuff whether it be a typical christian or a dub that none of them REALLY know for sure about any of it.

How nice God supplied the answer CLEARLY in his word.

I don't think anyone has a clue as to whats on the other side if anything.

Gumby

memorial tomb or grave ?

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