Ok, I edited this post and it deleted some paragraphs, so I'm re-writing and re-posting in a few mins
Got my JC cancelled... (at least for now)
by Sanchy 57 Replies latest jw friends
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Sanchy
Ok, here's the corrected post (Simon, FYI it keeps happening that editing my posts results in other changes and even deleted sections)
So I met with them last night, and even though I knew I probably shot myself in the foot, I decided to layout a defense based on my conscience not being respected. Here's a brief summary:
They began by saying that they had brothers coming to them left and right anguished by the book they saw me post and that now they were in a situation where they needed to act because the matter had become public and the friends need some kind of response as to what my status is (basically telling me they need to show friends they are handling the matter)
I started then by saying I should not have posted the FB link. I had originally promised myself I would not interfere with others faith, so, I told them I regret doing it and thus breaking my own pledge and that I would not do it again.
Having said that, I outlined the situation I'm in and what motivated me to post that book was the issue I wanted to bring to light, it being the lack of a way to exit this org without severe and cruel punishment. I showed them the July/2009 Awake article that says one should not have to choose between family and beliefs. When presented with this, they stuttered a bit, mumbled some words and ended up saying "well, that applies to other religions", to which I nodded my head and said: "you see?". I mentioned how before the early 80s, JWs were allowed to disassociate without the punishment of excommunication and that after that policy changed it created a big community of dissidents that had no viable options to leave. I told them how I got caught up in the moment from reading experiences of grandmas being cut off from their family, or teens committing suicide, and so I felt like I needed to speak up. That's why I posted that in FB. However, (I brown nosed a bit) and told them that I realize it was not the appropriate way of doing it; that perhaps I should have instead tried writing the branch or venting directly with the elders.
I pleaded with them, reminding them that in my situation, an expulsion would be not a 1 or 2 year thing, but rather, a lifetime punishment. My kids would be raised without getting to know their grandparents. I’d be dead to them, and all because my conscience dictates I cannot continue serving God in this way. I read to them the first few verses of Romans 14 which states to not judge someone because of differing opinion, to which they nodded their head and knew not what to say.
Then they went on to defend “the truth”, one of them saying that before learning it, he had been a Catholic, yet didn’t see “truth” there, then he went to the Adventists and saw no “truth” there, to which I interrupted and said: “but you were able to leave said religions when your conscience told you to do so. Do we JWs have the same right to do so without severe and cruel punishment?
After a while of back-and-forth along these lines, I again mentioned that I regretted posting the FB link and that I would not do it again, thanked them for their time, drifted off into conversing about one of the elder's sick elderly father who is currently in the hospital, and ended the meeting without prayer.
My thoughts: This meeting seemed to me to be just a formality. I could tell by their faces that coming into the meeting, they were ready to establish a JC no matter what. However, they were taken back a bit with the defense I put up regarding my conscience not being respected and so by the end of the meeting, it seemed to me that they were at a lost as to how they would proceed.
What I suspect happened was that when I objected to the JC during their initial call to inform me of it, they made a spur the moment decision to have the "admonishing" meeting I requested, figuring it would basically just be a meeting to tell me why a JC must occur. I suspect they never even told the rest of the BoE of their accepting to meet with me before the JC. Now, how will they tell the rest of the body that they went against their vote for a judicial committee and instead met with me, and even worst, how will they try to argue now in my favor? They wont, I doubt it.
I suspect they will meet in the next meeting, they will explain that they met with me first as per some request of mine, they will say I regretted posting the FB link but that I did not want to get DF'd because I didn't want to lose my family. The rest of the body will probably say something along the lines of "oh well, he should have thought of that before making the decisions that he did. He's the one that left. Jehovah's law is clear and the holy spirit has already guided us to decide on the matter that there must be a JC". So, I'm almost certain I will get a call within the next few days to schedule the committee meeting.
Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me. That way the friends would see that action was taken in this public matter, and I would not be excommunicated. I don't know what to make of this.
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Giordano
Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me. That way the friends would see that action was taken in this public matter, and I would not be excommunicated. I don't know what to make of this.
That would be a better result for you. The issue has gone public (within the JW world) and they have to do something. However if they don't Df you some will feel comfortable about interacting with you. If not immediately then later on.
You and your wonderful wife are apparently out at this point at least emotionally. There comes a time when you will have to leave totally. Staying in a toxic environment is too stressful.
Your point about the freedom to look into other religions was a good one.
Marian Guinn vs Church of Christ Collinsville is an important case where the courts were definitive, "No real freedom to choose religion would exist in this land if under the shield of the First Amendment religious institutions could impose their will on the unwilling and claim immunity from secular judicature for their tortuous acts."
http://church-discipline.blogspot.com/search/label/JW
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OnTheWayOut
Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me.
You know already- you have to kiss their asses. You have to say "I was wrong to post that book, as I said, and upon further reflection, I was wrong to talk about leaving the organization. It is Jehovah's organization , it has the truth."
That's the only way you get out with reproof. You already know that. It doesn't matter that your thoughts are not a violation of the rules.
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millie210
You did a good job Sanchy.
I firmly believe in the right of each of us to end this "unholy union" the Org has forced us in to, in whatever way is best for us as an individual.
The biggest support I can give you is to tell you that.
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sir82
Now, something I did hear the brothers mention is that a JC does not necessarily mean expulsion, kinda hinting to me that an option would be to publicly reprove me. That way the friends would see that action was taken in this public matter, and I would not be excommunicated. I don't know what to make of this.
Best guess: Your "defense" struck a chord with one or both of them. They realize that, per JW rules, a JC must be formed. But they are looking for a "way out" of having you DF'ed, because your defense made sense to them.
It would be highly likely that those 2 whom yo met with would also be on the JC. If you do have a JC, and you decide to attend, and you add a lot of groveling and "oh, how sorry I am that I damaged my relationship with Jehovah" then you might well get away with a public reproof.
It's a really big risk though.
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LostGeneration
Stick with the original defense:
If there is no response after a first and a second admonition, a judicial committee should be formed.
So if they decide to go to a JC now, they aren't following directions. You stated you aren't going to cause problems. Let them know how offended you are by their insistence on breaking up your family. Hint at legal defenses.
If they still try the JC I would personally threaten legal action individually against each member, and demand testimony from each and every witness who says they saw the post on FB.
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cha ching
Very good, Sanchy!
It is so nice to hear from people with morals! Cheers to you and your wife, embrace that you are a good person, feel good that you have stood up for what is right.
Your argument was great, right on, could not be argued with.... at least with a 'reasonable' person. Problem is, JWs are not reasoners, they are followers. Followers of books, directions, letters from the GB.
Hopefully, somehow, you will be one of the lucky ones who get people who have not been totally hardened by their commanders. Hopefully, you will slip thru the cracks.
Either way, you have your self esteem. Best thing in the world to have.
Congrats! Cha Ching!