This is What I Would Need in Order to Believe

by cofty 496 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cofty

  God has padded us with immortality. Your consciousness, the higher levels of your intellect and will are not destroyed by a tsunami.
  A tsunami can only give you some few minutes of pain and agony but can't damage your immortal soul. But your soul can be subject to an eternal dreadful state. - John_Mann

  Jesus claimed that his god cared passionately about the physical suffering of humans.

  Your defense of god is that he actually doesn't give a fuck about drowning 250,000 men, women and children in an event he could have prevented in a way that would not have impacted on free-will one iota.

  Punkofnice is right. The more theists talk the less theism makes sense. Which was the theme of the OP
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  John_Mann

  Jesus claimed that his god cared passionately about the physical suffering of humans.

  He cares in the sense of an afterlife reward.

  This cannot be grasped to those who only believe in a physical life.
  
  
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  cofty

  Why do you worship a god who cares nothing for physical suffering?
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  deegee

  John_Mann,

  There's no free-will after death.

  Every soul has free-will.

  Which is it?
  
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  punkofnice

  John_Mann - Did you say you'd had a personal revelation of some sort? I think I must have missed your explanation of this buried in this thread.
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  John_Mann

  Why do you worship a god who cares nothing for physical suffering?

  I worship the God who cares for physical suffering.
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  John_Mann

  @deegee - the soul only have free-will while limited in physical world. While in physical world the soul can change the will until the last breath.

  In the spiritual world there's no free-will anymore.

  The angels once had free-will too. But at this point anyone in the spiritual world has what's called instant discernment and their wills are fixed according to their last will before death.

  There are unlimited chances here but there's no second chance after death.
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  John_Mann

  Did you say you'd had a personal revelation of some sort? I think I must have missed your explanation of this buried in this thread.

  Yes.

  My acceptance of theism is based on the St. Anselm's ontological argument + the Pascal's wager + a private revelation to me.

  When I left the Watchtower in 2005 (I was almost a born-in) I felt a great revolt and abandoned theism as I knew it. I became an atheist but I thought it was a very arrogant position. So I became an agnostic and a "self service" believer.

  Three years ago I experienced a vision and it made me to think better about spiritual things.

  For my great surprise I realized I knew nothing about Christianity.
• 

  punkofnice

  
  

  John_Mann3 minutes ago

  Did you say you'd had a personal revelation of some sort? I think I must have missed your explanation of this buried in this thread.

  Yes.
  My acceptance of theism is based on the St. Anselm's ontological argument + the Pascal's wager + a private revelation to me.

  What was this 'revelation' then? I think an explanation of what it actually was will help me/others understand what you mean.
• 

  deegee

  John_Mann,

  "He cares in the sense of an afterlife reward."

  Everything is better in the afterlife which cannot be confirmed. Outside of religion, most people would consider such unverifiable promises to be fraudulent.

  The afterlife reward only serves to prove that the notion that Jesus' sacrifice paid the "debt" to settle the account is nothing more than a sham and a delusion.

  If Christ, by his death, paid the "debt" that is said to have been incurred through sin entering into the world, then why do we still have misery, pain, folly, ignorance, crime, injustice and death in the world?

  Jesus' death on the cross has changed nothing, it did not "put away sin" as promised:

  Hebrews (9:26):
  "Christ appeared "once at the end of the ages" to "put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself."

  Suffering, evil, sickness and death still continue. The object of Jesus' death to make a complete satisfaction for all sin, and to remove such sin from the world has not been attained.