New Anti-Jehovah's Witness Website!

by UnDisfellowshipped 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    The Edmonton Sun News

    Monday, May 12, 2003
    http://www.canoe.ca/EdmontonNews/es.es-05-12-0012.html

    Christians take differences to Web sites

    By DOUG BEAZLEY, EDMONTON SUN

    As holy wars go, this one's pretty polite. No firebombings, no stonings, very few rude words.

    Cheryl and Richard Schatz are Christians, members of a Pentecostal congregation in the city's east end and well known in local church circles for running a sort of reverse-evangelical lobby against the Jehovah's Witnesses.

    They operate an automated telephone message service criticizing Witness doctrine. They hold support groups for people who've recently left the church. They run a Web site attacking Witness practices and the church itself as a cult, bent on perverting Bible truth.

    Recently, the Schatzes have started branching out. They've launched a second Web site to go after the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) and the Seventh-Day Adventists for alleged cultish and "aberrant" doctrine.

    And it's starting to get on people's nerves.

    "We've had some hate mail, complaints to the phone company, letters to the newspapers," said Cheryl. "A couple of years ago someone cut the phone line to our message machine right outside our house.

    "The Mormon church is like the Jehovah's Witnesses in that they share the characteristics of a cult. They make it almost impossible to leave without cutting off ties to your family. They fit the profile."

    And Cheryl isn't the only one lobbing theological pipe bombs at Salt Lake City. An associate of a St. Albert church, who insists on being referred to only as "Ron," has been advertising his own anti-Mormon phone message in the same local weekly newspapers used by the Schatzes.

    "I spent three months talking to Mormons, going to their churches, so I know what I'm talking about," said Ron. "Mormons say there is more than one God, that Mormons can become like God. The Bible says that God will not tolerate polytheism.

    "I've been accused by Mormons of trying to deceive the faithful, of having a spirit of evil in me. None of them have called me up to argue that what I say isn't true."

    Robert White, a local Mormon elder, has heard most of it before. And much of it, he said, seems to come down to a unifying theme: sex.

    "These critics seem to have a preoccupation with sex, which I find troubling," he said. For instance: the MM Outreach Media Ministries Web page (run by the Schatzes) claims that Mormons believe Jesus Christ was born of actual sexual intercourse between God and Mary - and that Mary was, technically, not a virgin.

    The site also argues that Mormons believe Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, and Jesus was married - possibly more than once.

    "No, no, no," said White. "The Virgin Mary was a virgin. Jesus was not born of sexual congress. Lucifer was cast out of heaven and was quite clearly a spirit-child of the Heavenly Father, which makes him Jesus' brother by definition.

    "That sounds odd, unless you believe as we do that all of us are children (of God). Hitler's your brother. So's Saddam Hussein. And as for Jesus having a wife, we have no idea."

    On the "polytheism" claim, White allows that the Mormons believe in the perfectibility of human nature. He's forced to admit Ron's right in saying the Mormons only started anointing black people as priests in the late 1970s, a fact he's hard-pressed to explain.

    "There never seemed to be a convincing doctrinal reason. When it was changed, I think the decision was welcomed by Mormons with tremendous relief."

    But he wonders why adherents to other churches spend so much time slagging his own.

    "Take the things they say and substitute 'Jew' for 'Mormon,' and imagine the outcry," he said. "They're sowing the seeds of hatred and misunderstanding. But it's regrettably common."

    Turnabout is fair play, said Cheryl Schatz. Churches like the Mormons and the Witnesses rely on door-to-door evangelism for new converts. Schatz said she got into this business when she was doorstepped by a Witness challenging her faith.

    "The Internet really opens the world to you ... we used to visit people from door to door ourselves," she said.

    "I remember one Witness coming to my church once to complain about us, because he thought Witnesses and Mormons were the only ones allowed to do that."

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    Cheryl and Richard Schatz are Christians, members of a Pentecostal congregation in the city's east end and well known in local church circles for running a sort of reverse-evangelical lobby against the Jehovah's Witnesses

    Oh, and Pentecostals aren't at all cultish!

  • Brummie
    Brummie
    Pentecostals aren't at all cultish

    From my observations, some of them are, some of them are not.

    Brummie

  • rocketman
    rocketman
    "I spent three months talking to Mormons, going to their churches, so I know what I'm talking about," said Ron

    Three months does not seem to me to be enough time to really understand what any religion is all about.

    And yes, I always had the impression that the Pentecostal religion was a bit on the strange side too. But that's just a general impression; I've not researched the religion thoroughly (or spent three months going to their churches).

    But overall, I do think that these folks are on to something, namely, the cultish nature of the jw religion, and maybe that of the Mormons too.

  • concerned mama
    concerned mama

    I live in Edmonton, although not in their part of the city, and I have never heard of this couple or their work. I have never seen any phone number anywhere to contact them if I wanted to. I will keep my eyes open and let you know what else I find out. I know there is a couple who has been around for a long time who posts on this forum sometimes who run a support service for Ex-JWs.

    I don't think that any support system for JWs trying to leave that cult should be automatically dismissed because they have a religious affiliaction. I don't know enough about what they say or do to judge them. So many of you have worked so hard to educate the public about the dangers of a cult, that I am personally grateful for any publicity in that direction.

    Time to get dressed and buy a "Sun" newspaper.

  • cherjcd
    cherjcd

    Hi,

    Wow, news travels fast around these parts. I just spoke to the reporter last night, the story is on the internet this morning and already there is a post concerning it. Amazing!

    Doug Beasley asked me what church I went to. I go to a Pentecostal church, but that is not my religion. I am a Christian first off and foremost. No church died for me and no church can save me. Normally I don't even discuss what church I go to because that is not of any importance. A Christian can go to one church or another and not experience disfellowshipping, shunning or fear of being disloyal to God. What a wonderful freedom we have that people in cults do not have.

    If you want to know more about what we do and why we do what we you, you can read all about us on our contact page at http://mmoutreach.org/contact_us.htm

    Cheryl

  • Brummie
    Brummie
    over 83,000 phone calls up to March 2003

    It shows there is a need for this so well done to you and your team. I met the Macgregors too and they are great people, Kieth is cool and Lorri is da boss...LOL. They have helped many and you cant knock them for that.

    Brummie

  • JT
    JT
    Cheryl and Richard Schatz are Christians, members of a Pentecostal congregation in the city's east end and well known in local church circles for running a sort of reverse-evangelical lobby against the Jehovah's Witnesses

    Oh, and Pentecostals aren't at all cultish!

    i was thinking the same thing, while there are different groups , they do share some common things- some speak in tongues, some handle snakes, some foam at the mouth, some roll on the floor, some require no pants for women, no jewlery, no makeup, and the list goes on and on what we see is another group INVOKING god as the one who gave them some FUNKY RULES for the members to live by same product different package

  • Gordy
    Gordy

    JT

    Here in Britain I have never come across any Pentecostals as you describe.

    The Elim Pentecostal church I attend, which was founded by a Welshman in Ireland in 1915.

    Apart from the speaking in tongues, they've never done any of the over things.

    Everyone dresses how they like, as well.

    I have noticed how some American "churches" seem so much more over the top than those here in Britain. Not saying that there may be the odd one here that is a bit OTT.

    Like "cherjcd" I regard myself as a Christian, which is what I tell people if I am asked what religion I am, I don't say Pentecostal. I go because of the fellowship. Also they gave me the the support I needed after leaving the JW's after 30 years. By the way they were not the first church I went to after leaving the JW's. But I feel "at home" there.

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    I have met the couple that this article speaks of They are wonderful folk. They have done so much for so many JWs who have left the "lie"

    You can see some of there work onhttp://www.jwinfoline.com/Page/audio.htm

    As to the Pentecostal Church members. They are all just people- If some in those building do odd things that exJWs cant understand.Just dont think about it- But judge not as ye dont want to be judged --- many folks out there think all us that were in JWS had a "screw loose" I want to tell you it was a Pentecostal person that gave me $300 to start sending out books, tapes, cassets, videos, to Ex JWS .. my 2 cents.

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