"Seven nations more populous than you are"

by FFGhost 4 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  FFGhost

  I wrote this up a few months ago:

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5087628499091456/camp-israel-problem-pooping

  This other little nugget from Deuteronomy caught my eye as well:

  Deuteronomy 7:1 (NWT):

  When Jehovah your God brings you into the land you are about to enter and take possession of, he will also clear away populous nations from before you: the Hitʹtites, the Girʹga·shites, the Amʹor·ites, the Caʹnaan·ites, the Perʹiz·zites, the Hiʹvites, and the Jebʹu·sites, seven nations more populous and mightier than you are

  I commented in the above-cited thread about how the WTS dogmatically asserts that the number of Israelite nomads, at the time of their conquest of the promised land, was 3 million.

  Here, in this verse, Jehovah promises to "clear away" these 7 nations, "more populous than you are".

  So, assuming I do better at math in this thread than in the previous one, and assuming that "more populous" is the bare minimum, we'll assign a population of 3,000,001 to each of those 7 nations.

  That means that, in the land of Canaan, roughly corresponding to modern-day Israel, Palestine, and Jordan, there were, at a bare minimum, 24 million people either living or camping there (3 million Israelites and at least 21,000,007 other guys).

  Hmm, I wonder how populations of Europe / Asia Middle East from 3500 (WTS chronology) years ago compare to today?

  Must be pretty significantly higher, right? 3500 years ago, there were about 500,000 people living in Greece, now there are 10 million plus. 3500 years ago, there were about 2-3 million people living in Egypt, today there are 100 million plus.

  So, let pull out my Google-ator here...population of Israel, Jordan, and Palestine in 2021...is ~24 million.

  So, since as the WTS asserts, every word of the Bible is "God-breathed" and is absolute, literal, verifiable, true history, the population of the "promised land" has.....remained identical to what it was 3500 years ago.

  Or....

  Now bear with me here...could it be....

  That the Bible doesn't really contain absolutely truthful, literal, absolute history?

  Nah, that can't be it. The population must be the same today as it was 3500 years ago.
• 

  Simon

  The bible is a series of tall tales by people who couldn't do real math.
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  Sea Breeze

  WTS dogmatically asserts that the number of Israelite nomads, at the time of their conquest of the promised land, was 3 million.

  Why would you assume anything the WT says is true? I've heard of estimates in the 30,000 range.
  
  
• 

  Anony Mous

  The WT is quite right if they take a literal approach to the Bible.

  Shortly after they left Egypt, in Numbers it says a census was taken that says there were ~600,000 men that could fight. If you account for the men that couldn’t fight, the women and children, 2 million is indeed a decent estimate.
  

  Obviously the entire population on earth back then was 3-4M people, so not sure why they left Egypt, they could’ve just overrun it, they would’ve outnumbered just about any population from there purely through growth and we’d all be Jews today.
• 

  Bobcat

  The words rendered "populous" and "more populous" in the NWT are the same word in the Hebrew (Strong's # 7227). The word basically means "many" or "great." It is possible to understand the first occurrence in Deut 7:1 to refer to 'many nations,' or 'great nations,' rather than 'many people' (as in population).

  The second occurrence of the term is rendered "more populous" in the NWT, and could also be rendered as 'great' or 'greater' or 'larger,' rather than "more populous." (See the BibleHub translation listing here.)

  But even if the word is meant in reference to population, it is also possible that the writer is speaking of these seven nations as being collectively "more populous." The NAC-Deuteronomy commentary suggests that that is one way to read the text. (p.177)
  

  That would pare down 24,000,000 to a number larger than that of Israel, but still far less than 24 million.

  One other point to note: A chronology based on the MT alone places the flood at around 2303 BCE (with variations according to who you cite). But if you factor in the LXX & SP regarding the post flood patriarchs (a 650 year increase), the date of the flood becomes ~ 2953 BCE. (For example, see here.)

  The reason I point that out is because if one dates Israel's entry into the promised land at 1406 BCE (as many do), that allows for roughly 1550 years of human population growth after the flood, making a promised land population in the millions quite feasible. (For example, using this calculator, and a starting population of 8, and 1550 years, and a 1.2 % growth rate, gives an ending population of nearly 57 million.)

  Of course, the 1.2 % growth rate is simply a guess. Reportedly, human population rose from ~1 billion in 1800 CE to about 7.7 billion now (220 years). This is a growth rate of about .935 %. So my guess of a 1.2 % growth rate above was predicated/guesstimated on the longer post-flood life spans reported in the Bible and more prevalent polygamy. But my point is that mathematically and linguistically, it would have been quite possible for the nations of the promised land to have (collectively) outnumbered Israel, even using a 2 or 2.5 million figure for Israel when they entered the promised land.

  (Using a starting population of 8, 1550 years, and 1.3 % growth rate gives an ending population of nearly 4 billion. 1.2 % gave an ending population of about 57 million. Such is the exponential nature of population growth.)