Needing to Questions Elders to Help Husband Understand

by Unlikely-pack-6349 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Unlikely-pack-6349
    Unlikely-pack-6349

    My husband insist that I talk to the elders. It is something I 100% plan on doing for the simple fact of my relationship with him. I know some of you may disagree but it seems like the best option for us.

    Problem/Question:

    What questions or issues can I bring up that won't scream apostate in order to keep this meeting going? I have a strong feeling that anything CA and procedure regarding this will cause this to automatically crash and burn. My husband insist and confirmed when I double checked that this is a topic I can bring up. I think it is because he has never seen or heard a personal story about how this plays out behind the scenes. I plan to write my questions on a paper to show him before this meeting so he can agree that it is a point they will talk about.

    Possible things to avoid and are meaningless: 1914, 587 vs 607 BCE, "old light" Is there anything to add to this list or know of points that are safer but still make the point I need.

    My goal is not to convivence anyone in that room that they are wrong and I am right. It is purely to show him how sheltered, by the script, and HR like the elders are. I am already done and don't really care about fading vs DA vs DF. I am more worried how people will view or treat him by those actions. I would gladly sacrifice myself to wake my husband up or keep my marriage strong. He told me it was worse for our relationship for me to live a lie. He will not support anyone tearing down our child or me.

    Story:

    He is inactive, hasn't been to more than 5 meetings in the last year, and doesn’t live everything by the JW logic. (more politically minded, worldly friends, etc.) He is still mental in and thinks that the Elder ONLY job is there to support us and keep us safe. He has this mentality because of his experiences and what he has heard from others. He even recently ran into someone that had disassociated and had a long conversation. My husband learned that in this guy's experience that the elders he meet with were super supportive and even told him not to disassociate even with all the things they questioned him with.

    He is concerned that I am only looking at the negative and the elders should be given the chance to explain their side since I don't know everything. I know how this will go down since the elder's job is to ONLY state things from the org and keep the congregtion clean (aka kick people out.) I even said this to him but he said that it was negative and that I didn't really know what would happen. I have been on my fading path with family, friends, and the congregarion for about 3 years because of some issues. In Apri I 95% made up my mind that I was completely done when I learned in the BOEs letter and saw with my own eyes how that elders can and will lie to make the org look better. I even pieced things together with my own father.

    I showed and asked him about the article about piñatas. He was so surprised that he called all this family and friends telling them to read this artice, asked them their opinion, and came back at them about supporting holidays. I have been able to bring up current information like the ARC. I even asked why the org is paying a fine every day to withhold CA documents secret and how I couldn’t support them doing that. He straight up told and 100% believes that next to JW.org that the next best, reliable thing would be the court documents, new reports, and official statements. (btw he hasn't seen or accepted these documents himself but has some common sense.) He thinks that elders would be okay with me asking about these things and even said I should bring up an issue I had with a BOEs letter because "there must be a reason or more to the story."

  • pistolpete
    pistolpete

    Me personally, I would keep the elders out of it.You are dealing with a religious cult of very indoctrinated men. There is no way you can come out of any discussion with them as a winner in any way, shape, or form.

    It would be better if you just not meet with other cult members, and be patient and work on your husband little by little and avoid any confrontations that put a strain on a marriage.

    Waking up anyone, your husband in this case takes a lot of time. It takes lots of research and it is very difficult emotionally and mentally for someone to deal with the fact that they have been lied about everything. For many it actually takes years to finally see.

    https://theconversation.com/how-to-talk-someone-out-of-a-damaging-cult-68930

  • Overrated
    Overrated

    Stay away from the elders. I would seek counseling with those who deal with cults. And give it time. Your mate needs to see the bullshit for themselves.

  • Cadellin
    Cadellin

    Unlikely, sorry to hear you are in this tough situation. I'm curious as to how your husband justifies his own situation, which JWs would consider weak at best and probably in line to bite it at Armagg. It is one thing for an uber-zealous mate to want you to meet with the elders, something quite different for someone who is barely a JW.

    As far as meeting with them, if you think it is necessary for your marriage, based on your husband's wishes, then you probably should go ahead with it. But as others have pointed out, it is likely not to make much difference. Still, if you prepare well and have evidence to back up your "concerns" and keep a calm and mild voice/attitude (you know how JWs esp. elders look for that, particularly in women), it might go okay.

    Keep us posted. As a POMO wife to a sweet but still very much PIMI elder husband, I can understand your feelings.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    I agree with pistolpete. I wouldn't have anything to do with them. If anything, I would meet with only one. If you meet with more than one at a time, even if one of them understands a point you make and even agrees with you and is having doubts himself, he won't be able to even remotely admit it because of the other(s) present; he will have to play his role.

    If you do meet with one or more, you can play weak and troubled by what some non-JW (relative, workmate, friend from the past, etc.) told you, and you act like you want a way to respond to this person. Bring up something like failed predictions, the "generation" teaching not making sense, profiting off disaster relief, etc.

    This was posted on this forum fairly recently (1967 mag):


  • Incognito
    Incognito

    While I understand your reasons for wanting to do so, I too suggest you reconsider meeting with elders.

    Involving elders implies they are important or hold some power or authority. Now that you have left the religion, the only importance, power or authority they hold is what you allow them to have.

    You and your husband are each other's chosen life partners. You are both individuals with individual thoughts, ideas and beliefs which do not always need to be identical to enjoy a great marriage. Even when you disagree, there should be no reason you can't discuss matters between yourselves to understand and accept each other's point of view.

    Your husband insisting that you talk to elders implies he is not comfortable, assured or committed to the JW beliefs or the other concerns you wish to raise, otherwise, he should be able to discuss those matters without needing other men to intervene on his behalf.

    He knows doing personal research into the concerns you raise will require effort on his part which may lead to his own questions and doubts. By insisting you meet with the elders, he is attempting to take the easy route as he knows he will not need to put in any effort and, they will attempt to change your thinking, not his.

    You said: "He thinks that elders would be okay with me asking about these things and even said I should bring up an issue I had with a BOEs letter because "there must be a reason or more to the story."

    Although he attempts to defend WTs actions, as a member of the congregation that can't explain the reasons, perhaps he, not you, should be demanding an explanation from the elders.

  • neat blue dog
    neat blue dog

    Bottom line: there is no way this ends well. If you ever did bring up Elders letters, it would only be distracted by the fact that you aren't supposed to see them, plus that you only could've seen them from 'apostate' sources and therefore they're probably edited to make the org look bad. If you have to meet with them, and if you have to bring something up, I think Magnum gave the best advice.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    Magnum

    funnily enough, an elder called yesterday, to collect something, and in conversation mentioned the state of the world and the fact that we are now in the final part of the final part of the times...

    I laughed it off and just said that “ I think we have heard that before somewhere “

    but I wish I could have remembered how long ago that was.....

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    Your husband insisting that you talk to elders implies he is not comfortable, assured or committed to the JW beliefs or the other concerns you wish to raise, otherwise, he should be able to discuss those matters without needing other men to intervene on his behalf.

    He knows doing personal research into the concerns you raise will require effort on his part which may lead to his own questions and doubts. By insisting you meet with the elders, he is attempting to take the easy route as he knows he will not need to put in any effort and, they will attempt to change your thinking, not his.

    Incognito has summed it up perfectly.

    As others have said do not meet with the Elders.The religion to him is not based on doctrines or even a true understanding of what he is supposed to believe.IT`s based on emotion and a feel good utopian religion.

    Rather than him making you talk to Elders I would suggest you put the onus on him to read Don Camerons excellent book "Captives of A Concept " available on-line and is very cheap to download ,and if that doesn`t open his eyes ,then the options are yours.

    I wish you well .

    Edit to say : Welcome to the forum.

  • careful
    careful

    UP-6349,

    As you yourself put it: "I have a strong feeling that anything CA and procedure regarding this will cause this to automatically crash and burn"

    On the one hand you recognize that, but on the other, you seem to believe that you can somehow get through to them on this issue. You cannot. As soon as they get the slightest whiff that you are not toeing the party line IN ANY WAY, especially on the not-to-be questioned, or even discussed CSA matter, their defences will go up and they will not listen to the content of your questions, only that you have strayed into an area that you should not have. Their brains will only shout out them, "Danger, danger!" Next they will think, "Where did she get this? It's not been in any organizational publications." They will quickly conclude that you've been reading "apostate" material and begin warning you about that. You will set yourself up as a target in the cong. Is that what you want?

    This is the only outcome. You can write the script in advance. Why put yourself through it? Find another way to deal with it.

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