Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

by aboveusonlysky 115 Replies latest jw friends

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  Simon

  The step most people seem to forget when campaigning against shunning is coming up with some kind of legislation that could be put in place which wouldn't be 1,000 times worse than shunning.

  Because if you want to be able to force people to associate, it works both ways.

  Don't want your JW family round teaching crap to your kids? Unlucky, you can't "shun" them.

  In fact why shouldn't Scientologists barge their way in, what right have you to turn them away?

  And how is it all enforced ... do government forces point guns at people to ensure you have access to daddies BBQ?

  Come up with some workable idea of how to legislate but until then, any campaign is just noise to highlight something and nothing more.

  And by "workable" I mean something that doesn't trample roughshod over a million and one other rights and freedoms and doesn't turn the world into a militaristic theocracy.
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  StephaneLaliberte

  Though I respect the right of anyone to shun whom ever they want, I believe that Organised Shunning should be considered criminal.

  This means that the watchtower would not have the right to coerce its members into shunning xJWs. Though they could suggest their members to shun xJW, they would have to make it clear in the same literature or talk that it is left to each individual's conscience and that no one should judge anyone else in this regard.

  Hence, if a brother was to loose his privileges because he is not shunning his kids, or should someone be disfellowshipped for keeping contact with an xJW, than, the Elders who enforced this rule would face criminal charges for organising and enforcing shunning.

  I sincerely do not know which arguments would hold against such a law.
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  aboveusonlysky

  Well put Giordano, I've often thought shunning is similar to past religious abuses like torture in that those that don't support the arrangement can be subjected to the same punishment, this is where WT have crossed a line that I feel with the right legislation could be actionable in court.

  Simon you make a great point but I think we're talking about different things. There's nothing I can do about those that have chose to shun me purely because I no longer hold the same beliefs I had in the past, on the other hand when I want to associate with df'd friends I have to do so I'm secret for fear of being subject to a judicial committee myself, all of this is printed organization procedure.

  Child abuse victims are rightly able to sue the org for large sums of money if organizational neglect can be proven in court, a big reason for the compensation being so high is the emotional trauma the victim has suffered, so what about the trauma caused by shunning? Could that not in some cases be actionable too? I'm fairly sure that if a similar thing went on in business rather than religion it would be actionable.
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  freemindfade

  You can't force people to speak

  What might make more sense, is to hold religious (charity/non-profit) organizations responsible for promoting what amounts to a human rights problem. Then penalize them with threatening their "religion" status.

  You practice systematic shunning, bye bye tax exemption. That's as far as I would go, making things illegal and banning them never makes sense.
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  Fairlane

  There are many ways to deal with unwelcome comment from family or friends which may influence in an unwelcome way . There is no need to shun, there is always the law if the behaviour goes contrary to legalities. Shunning is despicable and should not be tolerated it leads to extended negative consequences inc' health and mental health problems.
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  undercover

  We all shun. We just do it for personal reasons. You don't like someone, you avoid them. Someone wronged you, or lied about you, you avoid them. It's a choice we make, based on our experiences with that person.

  The WTS takes this to a group level. You're in the club, but break the rules. Now you're no longer in the club. The other club members are told you're out, and they collectively shun you. True, it's not based on personal interaction with you, it's based on obedience to the leadership, and compliance with the collective, but break it all the way down, there's nothing you can do about it. Like so many said already, you can't make someone talk to you, or accept you. By not adhering to their rules and traditions, you put yourself in a position of possibly being shunned.

  The terrible part of a religious group who practices shunning is how they coerce family members to shun their own family. It is a terrible thing, but even in the 'real' world there are people who have had to disown family members for various reasons. That was a personal decision, based on experiences and facts of dealing with that person. In the JW world, that decision is based on compliance with the WT leadership. No petitions, or laws, are going to change that.
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  OUTLAW

  Could a petition to make shunning illegal work?

  Not If I Shun Your Petition.

  
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  Pete Zahut

  I think it would be more effective to somehow bring the shunning practices to public light so as to embarrass the organization or at least a lot of it's members, into taking a second look at the practice.

  A documentary style video played on national television that comprised of interviews that tell the background story of the people who are being shunned and the oft times heartbreaking effect it's had on their lives. There are likely millions of former JW's who have been shunned and they all have a story to tell. JW's might become thought of not only those annoying people who knock on your door but the ones that shun their families and friends who speak out or leave.

  It would be really effective if a former JW celebrity were able to conduct the interviews and use his or her celebrity to get it aired.
  
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  aboveusonlysky

  Criminal harassment statutes can often provide a basis for bringing charges in severe cases, and more serious criminal charges have been brought in cases where the offense has resulted in suicide or other tragic consequences.

  The above statement about cyber bullying is taken from

  http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-charges/cyber-bullying.html

  Can you really defend a cyber bullying incident that ends in a tragic suicide by reasoning that nobody was forced to bully the victim? Or that that freeness of speech means there's nothing we can do about cyber bullying?

  Now apply the same principles to the shunning announcement that causes many individuals to shun without even knowing what the shunned person even did! Surely it can be proven that such ones are ostracizing purely because they are instructed to do so by an organization that encourages bullying.

  True, you can't force everybody to be your buddy, you probably can't force the org to change it's shunning policies in the same way you can't change their 2 witness rule, but you can sue the pants off them if you get the law on your side, anything that makes that happen is a good thing in my opinion.

  
  

  Outlaw I applaud your outrageousness once again!

  
  
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  LongHairGal

  ABOVEUSONLYSKY:

  How could a law like this be enforced? I think it's practically impossible, even if they put something on paper.

  On the opposite side of the coin:.Witnesses try to force other JWs to associate with people they want nothing to do with. I saw this happen with JWs crazy bible studies they brought around!!...So, there is always going to be a problem with JWs either shunning somebody OR trying to force some distasteful individual on everybody.

  As a long time "fader" certain JW strangers might shun me in public but who cares? It's no loss...But I'm very sorry for everybody here who has actual family shunning them, but I do not see any end in sight for this matter until the shunners actually die off.

  Maybe as the religion gets more bad publicity as time goes on the shunning will let up a bit.