JW and communion

by Canadian Sunshine 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Earnest

  In Matthew (26:28), Mark (14:24) and Luke (22:20) when Jesus shares the bread and wine (communion) he says that the wine represents the "blood of the covenant" or the "new covenant". In Luke 22: 28-30 he goes on to say:

  However you are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

  In Revelation 5:9,10 it says that the Lamb bought persons for God with his blood "and made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth".

  So Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the only ones who should share in communion are those who are part of the kingdom covenant, who will be kings and priests and judges with Christ in heaven. They believe the number of a hundred and forty-four thousand in Revelation 7:4 to be literal but the sense in which they are "sons of Israel" to be figurative referring to spiritual Israel, the Christian congregation.

  This number of 144,000 is believed to be made up of Christians who have died since the time of the apostles and by now is almost complete. They assume it is not yet complete as the "harm" to the earth and the sea and the trees" (Revelation 7:3) has not yet occurred. Obviously, though, there must be very few left and that is why very few still share in communion at the Kingdom Halls. Whether you partake or not has nothing to do with whether you are an elder, or are even active in preaching. It is simply a matter of conviction, as the scripture says "the spirit bears witness that we are God's children" (Romans 8:16).
  

  Hope this helps.
  
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  nonjwspouse

  Earnest :

  That wording of "rule as kings over the earth " is one example of the examples where the NWT changed the Bible to fit the Watchtower narrative.

  Revelation 5:9-10 New International Version (NIV)

  9 And they sang a new song, saying:

  “You are worthy to take the scroll
  and to open its seals,
  because you were slain,
  and with your blood you purchased for God
  persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
  10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
  and they will reign[a] on the earth.”

  Revelation 5:9-10 King James Version (KJV)

  9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

  10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

  Revelation 5:9-10 American Standard Version (ASV)

  9 And they sing a new song, saying,

  Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation, 10 and madest them to be unto our God a kingdom and priests; and they reign upon the earth.

  Revelation 5:9-10 Living Bible (TLB)

  9 They were singing[a] him a new song with these words: “You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals and open it; for you were slain, and your blood has bought people from every nation as gifts for God. 10 And you have gathered them into a kingdom and made them priests of our God; they shall reign upon the earth.”

  Revelation 5:9-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

  9 And they *sang a new song, saying,

  “Worthy are You to take the [a]book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

  10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

  I could go on, but persons can get the point when doing the research.
  
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  Earnest

  nonjwspouse : I could go on, but persons can get the point when doing the research.

  The basic significance of the Greek word epi, which is the preposition in this verse, is "on" or "upon", and that is how the translations to which you refer read. But when doing the research you would find that is not the only meaning. When used in connection with power, authority or dignity, epi can also mean "over."

  God is referred to as being "over [epi] all." (Rom. 9:5; Eph. 4:6) The Ethiopian eunuch was "over [epi] all" the treasure of Candace. (Acts 8:27) The "faithful and discreet slave" is appointed by his master "over [epi] his domestics." (Matt. 24:45) Seven certified men were to be selected by the Jerusalem congregation that the apostles might "appoint them over [epi] this necessary business" of food distribution. (Acts 6:3) Clearly, in all these instances the Greek word epi followed by the genitive case cannot be translated "on" or "upon," but, in harmony with the context, is properly rendered "over" in the NWT and the translations to which you refer.
  

  Likewise, at Revelation 5:10, those entrusted with rulership are in charge of the earth, exercising dominion over those dwelling on it. The subject matter of this text is rulership, and so the Greek word epi calls attention to the area over which they exercise authority.

  This is not changing the Bible, it is giving careful attention to the nuances of Greek prepositions and translating them accordingly.
  
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  Crazyguy

  That actual Greek inter linear says at Revelations 5:9-10 that they will reign on the earth as priests. There is no mentioning of them being kings or ruling over the earth. This is just another blatant JW change in their bible to push thier doctrine.
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  _Morpheus

  Dont let ernests diatribes on dead langues distract from the obvious: the jw belief that only 144,000 go to heaven is ludicrous. They teach all first centery christains were annointed and that the earthly hope didnt open until around 1935... but there wernt 144,000 followers between the year 29 and 1935? Please. It stupid beyond words.
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  humbled

  
  

  4 These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed[a] from among men, beingfirstfruits to God and to the Lamb. Rev 14:4 NKJV

  This is one scripture the elders agreed to look up with me before my final interview.

  Questioning the FS teaching clearly created a great problem for me. But worse by by far was the bind the anointed faced in their obligation to also follow the Faithful Slave in order to follow the Lamb. But the scriptures show it doesn’t work that way- if you follow man you are not following the Lamb.

  The scripture above states one of the identifying features of the 144000 : they follow the Lamb wherever He goes. The reference to being”virgins” is their not following man’s religion.

  Any who claim to be anointed are compromised if they are false to the spirit within them that disagrees with policy yet follow it-essentially endorsing men ahead of the Lamb.

  It is obvious that the Truth forces the anointed to lie and/or stfu. So this is God’s arrangement?
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  Earnest

  Crazyguy : That actual Greek inter linear says at Revelations 5:9-10 that they will reign on the earth as priests.

  Revelation 2:26 "And to him that conquers...I will give authority over (epi) the nations".

  Revelation 9:11 "They are having over (epi) them a king..."

  Revelation 11:6 "...and they [the two witnesses] have authority over (epi) the waters to turn them into blood..."

  The actual Greek interlinear says in these verses that the meaning of the word epi is "upon", but would these verses make any sense if they read "give authority upon the nations", "have upon them a king", or "have authority upon the waters to turn them into blood"?
  

  As the context of these verses relates to power, authority or dignity epi is correctly translated as "over", as it is in Revelation 5:10.
  
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  _Morpheus

  Unless your willing to share where you got your degree in ancient greek, your talking out of your ass about something you know nothing about. This internet trollerly at its trolliest.
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  Earnest

  Thayers Greek Lexicon (meanings of epi) :

  A. I. 1 d. figuratively used of things, affairs, persons, which one is set over, over which he exercises power; Latin supra, our over
  

  "who is over (epi) all". Romans 9:5; Ephesians 4:6
  

  "to appoint over (epi) something", Matthew 24:45; Matthew 25:21, 23; Luke 12:42; Acts 6:3 (Genesis 39:4, 5; 1 Macc. 6:14; 1 Macc. 10:37);

  "give authority over (epi) the nations", Revelation 2:26;

  "to have authority over (epi)", Revelation 20:6;

  "ruled as king over (epi) somewhere", Matthew 2:22; Revelation 5:10;

  "have over (epi) them a king", Revelation 9:11;

  "have a kingdom over (epi) the kings", Revelation 17:18;

  "who was over (epi) the treasury", Acts 8:27;

  "he who presided over (epi) the bedchamber" (the chamberlain), Acts 12:20
  

  B. 2 b. of that over which one is placed, for its care or administration:

  "will appoint him over (epi) all his belongings", Luke 12:44
  

  C. I. 2 e. of care, power, control over anything
  

  "he will rule as king over (epi) someone", Luke 1:33; Luke 19:14, 27; Romans 5:14;

  "appointed to govern (over epi) Egypt", Acts 7:10;

  "appoint him over (epi) the works of your hands", Hebrews 2:7 R ((from Psalm 8:7),

  "we have a great priest over (epi) the house of God", Hebrews 10:21;

  "who appointed me judge over (epi) you persons", Luke 12:14;

  "have given authority over (epi) something", Luke 10:19; Revelation 6:8; Revelation 16:9; Revelation 22:14;

  "keeping watch over (epi) their flocks", Luke 2:8;

  of usurped dignity:

  "lifts himself up over (epi) everyone who is called 'god'", 2 Thessalonians 2:4 cf. Daniel 11:36f. Akin to this is the expression "faithful over (epi) things" (because fidelity is as it were spread over the things intrusted to its care), Matthew 25:21.