by Corney 42 Replies latest watchtower scandals
TD an hour ago
- Why are there not accompanying criminal charges in addition to the civil suit?
'In April 2008, the Roy church formed a judicial committee'
https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4465861&itype=CMSID
'Misdemeanors have an SOL of 2 years.
TD, as was explained in the district court opinion (footnote 7), "the legal definition of child pornography would not cover an audio recording without any visual aspect".
My heart has always gone out to the victim and parents. They have been members on this board for years, and I met them at the Tahoe Appostafest years ago.
Had I not experienced the (top-down) convoluted backward thinking of many JW elders even in New York City and California, and met the likable, solid, and intelligent parents, I would have thought the entire horrific story incredulous.
Kudos to this family for keeping up the fight. Even in a small Mormon majority town and state, many authorities find Watchtower policies despicable and stone age.
My heart has always gone out to the victim and parents. They have been members on this board for years, and I met them at the Tahoe Appostafest years ago.Im shocked! Whoever you are, you are an incredibly brave family.
Im not sure how much satisfaction you will receive, even should you win. We know Watchtower never says “sorry”. Ultimately that’s what victims want....no more victims.
One thing I’m sure of though. If you manage to change the entrenched, atavistic attitude of this Mormon state, you will have made the lives of many, many children far safer. Making sure all religions are called to account when they sanction child abuse, by turning a blind eye at best and at worst re-victimizing the child, is no greater testimony to your bravery. The ‘church inviolable’, no matter how despicable It’s behavior, has got to be changed!
I echo Balaamsass2’s (that name always cracks me up) Comments. I’ve known the father for 50 years, newly reacquainted just before Tahoe a few years ago. It’s a gut wrenching story, with the only good thing is they are all out of the WT, and doing well.
I use this story when somebody tries to tell me that this organization isn’t really that bad, or that satan is exaggerating these abuse cases.
The hearing has been held on Monday, as previously announced.
The argument recording (credit to Mark O'Donnell): https://youtu.be/dAu4SDd0_nY
Covered by an LDS-affiliated (correct me if I'm wrong on this) media outlet: http://deseret.com/utah/2020/11/9/21557200/utah-supreme-court-case-woman-says-church-made-her-listen-to-audio-of-her-rape-jehovahs-witnesses
I think the case won't be decided by the Utah Supreme Court until at least March, and whatever the outcome, the battle over First Amendment issues won't be over. I'm not sure on some procedural rules, but apparently we can expect there will be either a SCOTUS petition or a new motion to dismiss on grounds not considered by appellate courts, like the federal Free Exercise Clause or the Utah Constitution.
Some thoughts:
First, I can't help but to think that people without proper legal background are unable, in most cases, to comment meaningfully - not just expressing one's outrage or excitement, or twisting facts to express or support one's hostility towards something, or oversimplifying issues in question - on law and lawsuits. The inability of many commenters on Reddit, Youtube and other sites to distinguish between facts and allegations and to understand Justice Lee's therapy analogy are good examples.
Secondly, I would welcome a narrow and cautious judgment for the plaintiff. This lawsuit deserves to be tried but I'm not sure on IIED claims in general. The tort of intentional infliction of emotional distress is unique, amorphous and controversial. In contrast to battery, trespass and other torts, IIED isn't clearly defined and requires a jury to determine whether certain conduct is "outrageous," which in the current age of hyper-sensitivity, victimhood complex and rising anti-religious bigotry may result in gross violations of religious freedom. This case is complex not because evil Mormon judges want to make religion immune from scrutiny and liability - it's complex because courts needs to draw a line and to establish a viable and clear legal standard.
Corney - I’m not sure about your comment/statement about “evil Mormon judges [who] want to make religion immune from scrutiny and liability” - an utterance that could hold you in Contempt of Court and facing the likelihood of a prison sentence were it a Supreme Court hearing in Australia - but I do appreciate the update.
Good description on IIED. I believe that the use of the scriptures, by a corporation, to bully people is a classic example.
https://www.wesh.com/article/silent-no-more-part-1-the-survivors/28659357 Just ran across this on the news web site.
I had some trouble opening some links so I googled it and found some UK reports . This is shocking! Whatever were the elders thinking? It amazed me that it could happen in 2008. By then the procedures were well established for contacting Bethel as a matter of course. Did they suggest it?
If I were to put on a JW elder hat for a moment, I can only think..... 18yr old and 15yr old does that count as child abuse? ( in their mind)
no doubt he claimed consensual so , did she scream? ( that’s how they might think) They appear to be trying to prove that she consented...... but at 15?
Any way you look at it , it was a terrible thing to do. I hope they get taken to the cleaners on this one.
The complete and official recording of the hearing has become available: https://youtu.be/W5SXuoOR_bE
BluesBrother, you'll need a US IP to access the Utah Supreme Court site. I had to use a VPN too.
