CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

by Listener 72 Replies latest jw friends

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    A bitter war between the evangelical and atheist factions in the ex-JW community is raging – and it has just escalated. - Lloyd Evans aka John Cedars

    This is an example of the over-the-top, sensationalist and inflammatory rhetoric typical of Cedar's journalistic style.

    A lot of people have expressed that they really appreciate and have benefited from his work, but there are also quite of few of us that are put off by his approach.

    As The Rebel wrote above, "My personal option of Cedars website is that it is not for me, however like with newspapers I have plenty of choices available." We don't have to read it if we don't like it.

    That being said, what is of interest to me is how some respond to any criticism at all of the methods he employs in his activism. These responses often come with a peculiar viciousness disproportionate to the initial criticisms. They are generally emotional attacks that fail to even acknowledge, let alone address the issues raised. If the past is any indication of what may happen in the future, I wouldn't be the least be surprised to receive some personal attacks for writing even this. We'll see what we shall see. Whatever.

    My take is this: Cedars puts him self out there publicly as a highly-visible activist, yet he often complains when he encounters any criticism or opposition.

    Here in the U.S. we have an expression: If you can't stand the heat, get the hell out of the kitchen!

    -

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Simon: Some people don't like to be criticized or challenged and the thing they 'know' to deal with it is to apply a label to those being critical so they can be dismissed

    Excellent point!

  • cofty
    cofty
    Sadly some ex jws (christian AND atheistic) are still trapped in this JW thinking that their view is the truth. - Daniel

    JW thinking - and christianity - is about ignoring evidence and believing irrational superstitions that appeal to us.

    Rejection of those delusions - AKA atheism - is about finding the courage to face up to that evidence.

    There is absolutely no equivalence.

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped
    I avoid talking much about the Bible or God on here because from what I see too many ex-JWs still believe that wherever they land in life is "truth" and everyone else is dead wrong. It is tiring and I have no desire to open a thread about the Bible to have it derailed by pompous atheists anymore than I desire to be pompous and go into athoestic threads and tell them they're dead wrong. I see a large divide even on here and see that divide as a lack of respect for the opinions of others reminiscent of my days as a dub. I'd love to have open, respectful conversations but it isn't possible, and I'm open to Bible criticism. I'm just not open to a-holes, which many ex-Witnesses become for their newfound beliefs.
  • cofty
    cofty
    I'd love to have open, respectful conversations but it isn't possible - dubstepped

    Yes it is. I have had lots of them. I never make personal attacks.

    Choose the topic and let's have a respectful conversation. I will respect you but your beliefs will have to earn respect. Is that fair enough?

  • dubstepped
    dubstepped

    Lol Cofty, you're one of the foremost that comes to mind. Your post above mine is exactly what I'm talking about with you talking down about people's "delusions". To think any one of us knows it all is the height of delusion. You can no more prove the existence of God than that God does not exist. It ends up being divisive because instead of trying to have two sides trying to learn and grow from one another they tend to sit as polar opposites and look down upon the other's views as mere rubbish, as you clearly do. I believe in God but question it. I find it hard to find many athiests that will question their athiesm. As long as anyone goes into a conversation with an I'm right and you're wrong mentality, little is ever learned and the tone is condescending and off putting. Sadly that's what most devolves into.

    I have a topic I've thought about starting. If I do you're free to reply and I'm open to real open minded discussion if you are.

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    Saved JW:

    link(s) or it didn't happen.

    And, i need some comic relief today.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    I wasn't aware about a ''riff''' between Cedar's site and this one if there is one. I didn't know we were talking about Cedar's site on here but here goes.

    I agree wholeheartedly that to ''label'' someone dismisses them. Totally cuts them off.

  • cofty
    cofty
    ...you talking down about people's "delusions"

    Beliefs that are not based on objective evidence are delusions by definiton

    To think any one of us knows it all is the height of delusion.

    I have never claimed to know it all.

    You can no more prove the existence of God than that God does not exist.

    I can prove the god of christian theism doesn't exist.

    I find it hard to find many athiests that will question their athiesm.

    Atheism isn't a thing you can question. It is a position of being unconvinced by the assertions of theism. I am open to any evidence you may have.

    the tone is condescending and off putting.

    Ignore tone and focus on facts. - It's a bit rich you complaining about tone when you have just called me an areshole

    I have a topic I've thought about starting. If I do you're free to reply and I'm open to real open minded discussion if you are.

    I look forward to it

  • snugglebunny
    snugglebunny

    Cedars is of a type. I've met quite a few similar people over the years and I recognised him for what he was from day one. Basically charismatic but totally political in everything they do and say. Everything is done and said with an end goal in mind - the eventual adoration of those around him.


Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit