An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, life for a life, a good law.
Poll: Atheists overwhelmingly oppose the death penalty, but most Christians favor it
by Disillusioned JW 44 Replies latest social current
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LoveUniHateExams
I think the death penalty should be kept - or reinstated in the case of the UK - so that the worst criminals are eliminated from society.
Their is a myth going around that prison sentences are to rehabilitate the criminal. This is false - sentences are there as a punishment for serious crime.
Some people who commit very serious crimes are beyond rehabilitation, and deserve to be put to death (e.g. Peter Sutcliffe aka the Yorkshire Ripper).
Of course, having the death penalty on the books can help a criminal see sense and confess in exchange for a life sentence. This is another reason to keep it/reinstate it.
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Disillusioned JW
waton, I don't see a high tolerance for crime among atheists, anymore than among theists. Just because one is against police brutality (that is, brutality done by the police) and manslaughter and murder done by the police, and against the death penalty, that doesn't mean one is against arrests and prison sentences for criminals. Atheists are more likely to be humanists than theists (and many humanists during the past 100 years tend to define humanism in such a way as to exclude belief in theism) and humanism tends to be against killing humans who are outside the womb (namely of ones who have been born). But paradoxically (to me at least) humanism tends to be in favor of people having the right to kill humans that are still in the womb (human embryos and even human fetuses that are not yet born).
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LoveUniHateExams
Atheists are more likely to be humanists than theists - this is highly debatable, lol.
(See Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.)
Which group was key to ending slavery in the US? Christians, from what I remember.
It wasn't the Muslims, the atheists, the tribal religionists which ended slavery, was it ...
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waton
LUHE I think the death penalty should be kept
The problem with any punishment is, that callous criminals will commit murder, worse crimes, to keep hiding their identity, escape punishment.
maybe, that is why Cain was never punished, the not so good samaritan, that knew about the plan never intervened. in the genesis story. --- good samaritan laws now?
btw, people have been executed for being just part of the party that was involved in a killing.
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truth_b_known
An eye for an eye creates a world full of blind people.
I was a huge supporter of the death penalty. In the past couple of years I have changed my mind.
As a species we have used state sanctioned execution since the beginning of recorded history. It is not a deterrent. Taking the offender's life doesn't bring the victim back to life nor does it end the suffering of the loved ones of the victim. Therefor execution doesn't balance the scales of justice. That is the problem with human justice; it is imperfect. There are many wrongs that cannot be made right.
In addition, I do believe in redemption. That is not to say everyone who does wrong will redeem themselves, but I do believe they should be afforded the opportunity.
Finally, I feel uneasy with sentencing someone to the death penalty for crimes where there is no eye witness other than the deceased and the accused. Also, the "Felony Murder Rule" in the United States presents an interesting moral dilemma. 3 men conspire to rob a bank - 2 go into bank and 1 is the getaway driver. 1 of the 2 robbers inside shoots and kills a bank teller. All 3 men are sentenced to death.
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mickbobcat
The death penalty should be used for the most hanius crimes that are proven beyond a doubt. But for those people its a just punishment. They die and we the tax payers don't have to keep them in prison and pay for them to live. Also how many gave gotten out and killed again?
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Disillusioned JW
When slavery was in existence there wasn't enough atheists in any slave holding country for the atheists by themselves to bring about an end to slavery. However in the USA there were freethinkers (including atheists) who were very outspoken against slavery. Virtually all of the slaveholders in the southern USA were Christians. The Baptist church (and others, such the Presbyterians) split over the issue of slavery of blacks. The southern congregations (at least a high percentage of them) of the Baptist church sided for the right to own black slaves and such is part of the history of the Southern Baptist Convention (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention ) - the largest Protestant denomination in the USA (see https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/22538281/southern-baptist-convention-ed-litton-sex-abuse-critical-race-theory ).
In one of the Apostle Paul's letters (or at least one written in his name) which is in the Bible, Paul wrote that he sent an escaped slave (who converted to Christianity after his escape) back to his Christian master (see Philemon 1:10-20). In another letter Paul wrote that slaves must be obedient to their masters.
Those Christians who ended slavery in the USA were mostly the ones who were more theologically liberal and progressive (such as the Quakers and Abraham Lincoln, except I'm not sure if Lincoln was really a Christian) than the pro-slavery Christians.
Frederick Douglass (an escaped slave who obtained his freedom and was later appointed to federal government office) in his autobiography said the church going Christian slaveholders were more brutal towards their slaves than the ones not claiming to be Christians (or maybe than the ones who were less devout as Christians). Along these lines, see https://www.pbs.org/thisfarbyfaith/people/frederick_douglass.html which says the following. 'In an appendix to his autobiography, Narrative of the Life of an American Slave, published in 1845, Douglass clarified that he was not opposed to all religion, but only the Christianity of a slaveholding America: "I love the pure, peaceable, and impartial Christianity of Christ: I therefore hate the corrupt, slaveholding, women-whipping, cradle-plundering, partial and hypocritical Christianity of this land. Indeed, I can see no reason, but the most deceitful one, for calling the religion of this land Christianity. I look upon it as the climax of all misnomers, the boldest of all frauds, and the grossest of all libels…" '
For more information about Douglass see https://www.nps.gov/museum/exhibits/douglass/visionary.html and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Douglass . The latter source says: "Without his permission, Douglass became the first African-American nominated for Vice President of the United States as the running mate and Vice Presidential nominee of Victoria Woodhull, on the Equal Rights Party ticket."
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truth_b_known
In one of the Apostle Paul's letters (or at least one written in his name) which is in the Bible, Paul wrote that he sent an escaped slave (who converted to Christianity after his escape) back to his Christian master (see Philemon 1:10-20). In another letter Paul wrote that slaves must be obedient to their masters.
"The Apostle Paul needs a 'come to Jesus' talk." - Jesus, Son of God
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carla
What is the purpose of prison? to rehabilitate, to punish or both? I think some are able to be rehabilitated like white collar crime and so forth but some are just evil and cannot be rehabilitated nor do they want to be. If someone hurt, tortured & raped my grandchildren or kids I think I would be able to pull the lever so to speak. Or if our prisons and jails were truly horrific let them live. I know a defense attorney and they say in the US prisons the inmates can get any drugs, telephones and so on, they have their own society with their own 'perks'. Not saying it is the same as being free on the outside but some have clearly chosen to be there, according to my defense attorney friend. The attorney says that some just find it easier to be on the inside. I find it hard to believe too, they claim it to be true for some.
I also find it interesting that most people who oppose the death penalty also approve of abortion. I have not looked up studies on such, just an observation of folks I have spoken with. I find that quite odd and cannot quite wrap my head around that one.