So what do you really think Punky ? 🤣🤣no need to sugar coat among friends.
Jan
UK Tax cut for the wealthiest
by BettyHumpter 30 Replies latest jw friends
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punkofnice
Jan - I do like to pull my punches
I look at what's happening here there and Tamworth and I get more convinced that we are all just a selfish species that inhabits a planet like fleas on a cat. We are none of us as important as we think we are. The human race is a deadly virus on this world. The whole process of our existence is insane. Our societies are mentally retarded.
We have no purpose, we only fool ourselves. We are tribal and animalistic.
Love is a trick of evolution to ensure the species reproduces. When it reproduces, it spews out hierarchical societies of sheeple and leaders. Goodness knows how we actually have survived.
We are living a grand lie.
UK Tax cuts. Will the UK ever improve? I'll be impressed if it does. Right now, my city is like an open sewer and getting worse.
Did I mention I hate authority and people in it?
Anyway, rant over. As you were.
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TonusOH
Aye, humanity is very smart on the micro level, but we're very much like every other animal species on the macro level. We're smart and dumb enough to be dangerous.
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Slidin Fast
The outcry has been overwhelming, the market responses unambiguous, the inevitable u-turn has been announced. We lumber on.
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FedUpJW
We are none of us as important as we think we are.
My father gave me a very good object lesson of that fact when I was a know-it-all, smart-ass teen and thought I was really something. He took me outside, filled a five gallon bucket with water from the garden hose, then told me to make a fist and stick my arm in the water up to the elbow and hold it there. After what seemed like an eternity he told me to pull my arm out of the water and look at the impression that was left in the water. Of course there was none. He then told me that the amount of impression left was exact same amount of any lasting importance any person has.
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FedUpJW
Here is another pretty accurate description of how taxes work. While this was in the U.S. the principle is the same elsewhere.
Bit of a long read though.
Suppose that every day ten men go out for beer, and the bill for all ten comes to $100.00. If they were to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes it would look something like this:
The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth man would pay $1.00.
The sixth man would pay $3.00
The seventh man would pay $7.00.
The eighth man would pay $12.00.
The ninth man would pay $18.00.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.00.
So that is what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and all seemed quite happy with their arrangement; that is until one day when the bar owner threw them a curve-ball.
“Since you all are such good customers,” he said, “I am going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.00.” The drinks for the ten men would now only be $80.00.
The group still wanted to pay for their beer the same way we pay taxes. So the first four men (the poorest) were unaffected. They would still drink beer for free. But, what about the other six men? The ones actually PAYING for the beer they all drank? How could they divide the $20.00 windfall so each of the men would get his fair share? They realized that dividing $20.00 six ways was $3.33. But if they were to subtract that amount from everybody's share, then the fifth and sixth man would end up getting paid to drink beer!
So the bar owner suggested that it would be the most fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested each man should pay as follows:
The first four (the poorest) would still drink for free.
The fifth man though, now like the first four would pay nothing. (100% savings)
The sixth man would now pay $2.00 instead of $3.00 (33 1/3 % savings)
The seventh man would now pay $5.00 instead of $7.00 (28 1/2% savings)
The eighth man would now pay $9.00 instead of $12.00 (25% savings)
The ninth man would now pay $14.00 instead of $18.00 (22% savings)
The tenth man would now pay $50.00 instead of $59.00 (15% savings)
Each of the six men were better off than before, and the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the men began to compare their savings.
“I only got a dollar out of the $20.00 savings,” declared the sixth man. Pointing to the tenth man he said, “But he got $9.00!”
“Hey, that's right,” exclaimed the fifth man. “I only saved a dollar too. That's unfair that he got nine times more benefit than I did!”
“That's true,” shouted the seventh man, “Why should he get back $9.00 when I only got back $2.00? The rich get ALL the breaks!”
“Wait just a minute,” screamed the first four men in unison, “We didn't get back anything at all. This system exploits the poor!”
So the nine men surrounded the tenth man and beat him up.
The next night the tenth man did not show up for drinks, naturally. So the nine men sat down and drank their beers without the tenth man. But when the time came to pay the bill they discovered something very important. They didn't even between all nine of them have enough money to even pay one-half of the bill.
And that is basically how the tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from any tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just might not show up any more. In fact they may just start drinking elsewhere where the atmosphere is more friendly.
David R. Kamerchen, PhD.
Professor of Economics
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
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TonusOH
Without knowing how much those men are making, it's difficult to determine how fair the system was.
But also, that's not quite an accurate representation of the tax system either. It's possible that, after the bartender gave the group a break, the last four men would be paid to drink beer (tax credits).
And of course, if that tenth guy was Elon Musk, he might have paid the largest booze bill in human history... or not paid anything at all.
I guess I could keep going. The point is, the tax system in the USA is fucked.
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DesirousOfChange
Without knowing how much those men are making, it's difficult to determine how fair the system was
Interesting comment, but true.
Who decided that I should give "Society" a greater percentage of my earnings than the guy next to me who works part time because he wants to do it that way because it gives him the opportunity to help out on maintenance at the Ass Hall?
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BettyHumpter
"Who decided that I should give "Society" a greater percentage of my earnings than the guy next to me"
The idea of a progressive tax is to avoid putting too big of a burden on lower income people. Lets say we just had an across the board flat tax. Everyone regardless of income paid 35%. If your household income is 200K, you may still think it's a drag paying income taxes, but your ability to house, cloth and feed your family is not severely affected. But if you're family income is just 30K, that same rate could be devastating. People getting evicted or going hungry doesn't do society any good. That's the general idea of different tax brackets.
But we also have regressive taxes such as sales tax that are a flat % regardless of income and this stings low income people much more than wealthy. When paying for groceries for example.
Then there are sources of revenue that may not be taxes per se, in the sense that if you're careful you can mostly avoid them. Things like speeding tickets. If you're a millionaire and you get a $400 traffic ticket, it's pocket change and not much of a deterrent. If you're low income and get the same $400 ticket it could cause a financial crisis.
I've heard that in some countries they do have an income based fine system for traffic violations, where the rich guy who is speeding gets a fine that actually stings, so that everyone has the same incentive to obey the laws.