The Hiram key

by TheHighPriest 23 Replies latest jw friends

TheHighPriest

Thank's for the tip UB I've got the holy grail holy blood book but haven't read it yet, I'll look into the others.
Cheers
THP
goo

Let me get it straight right away: this quote is not in any way a respected scholarly work. It is a mass marketed conspiracy theory with little merit.
There may be much interesting stuff in it, especially it's lack of substantial facts, but it does not represent any scholarly consensus. Not even close.

Just so nobody gets mislead this quote represents no scholarly opinion, except at best a single minority voice. By all means, read it, but be skeptical, and read what others say on the subject especially goo.
Of 556 accusations of rape examined in an Air Force study, 27 percent of the accusers admitted, either just before taking a polygraph test or after failing one, that they had lied. - McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. "False Allegations." Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.
In a nine-year study of all resolved rape cases in a Midwestern U.S. city of 70,000, the accusers recanted their charges 41 percent of the time. The 41 percent figure does not include the other accusations that the police department recorded as unfounded, for which there was insufficient evidence to establish the assault. - Kanin, Eugene J., Ph.D. "False Rape Allegations." Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1 (1994), pp 81-92.
A survey of all the forcible rape complaints during a three-year period at two large Midwestern state universities found that 50 percent of the accusations were false. At each university, the complaints and investigations were the responsibility of a ranking female officer, and no complaint was declared false unless there was a recantation by the accuser. Fifty-three percent of the accusations were motivated by a need for an alibi; revenge was the motive for 44 percent. - Kanin, Eugene J., Ph.D. "False Rape Allegations." Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No.1 (1994), pp 81-92.
Goo.
TheHighPriest

Goo,
YOU NEED HELP, NOW GO AWAY AND GET SOME.
THP
dark clouds

uncle
i feel an apology is due to you,
for my paranoia remark was directed to janh
i appreciate your posts and what you have to say, my bad for not spacing it differently. . .
if you read my initial post again in this context,
i think you will see what i meant
peace. . .
dark clouds

The main conspiracy theory of the "Death Sea Scroll Deceeption" is just laughable and without merit, though.
I have not read the books,
I don't really bother much with these ideas, and you know very well I would like nothing better than ammo to poke fun at the Vatican.---janh

a statement as such is laughable without merit
how can you trash something you havent even read??!!!!
whos opinion did you borrow?
chuck
JanH

DC,
a statement as such is laughable without merit
how can you trash something you havent even read??!!!!

First, when you know NOTHING about a whole field of study, you'd do well approaching a discussion with those who do know with a little bit of humility. After all, this is a massive field of study, which thousands have been dedicating their lives to understand, and you haven't even opened a bloody book about it.
If someone comes along and writes a book on astronomy, claiming the earth is flat, a real astronomer doesn't have to read it to say it is laughable. Some ideas can actually be rejected out of hand, once you have sufficient knowledge in the field.
But I have indeed read some articles on this subject written by these authors. It is not even scholarly. It is junk. Which is sad, because they know a bit about the history of the Qumran scrolls, and have some interesting info to give. It's when they start making up the idea that the Vatican has secretly instructed the scroll team (who includes a protestant and an agnostic, btw) to keep these documents hidden because they will be "emberrassing to Christianity", that I say they are so far out to lunch it does not even merit serious discussion. There are far fetched ideas that may merit some investigation. This is not one of them.
Of course, you may keep on claiming I should read every flat earth book out there, because one of them may contain mind-blowing arguments that proves we are indeed living on a disc. I don't care.
When ideas presented in an article are ridiculous, I don't consider reading the whole book. This is the way all scholars work, since reading time is limited and valuable, and there is way too much chaff out there to wade through.
You, of course, being totally ignorant about the whole field, will keep repeating your nonsense, and assert I should not debunk a theory if I had not read every book written to defend it. And I will say this just proves you never were very educated.
It doesn't annoy me that people go along believing those silly conspiracy fantasies. Not even that unscrupulous charlatans write best sellers about theories they can't even really believe themselves. People will keep on believing what they want anyway.
But for the benefit of those readers who actually agrees with me that the best approach to knowledge is skeptical research like what you find in peer reviewed journals and not speculative paperbacks, I informed you all that Uncle Bruce's assertion that these titles were "solid historical work" is nonsense. What you want to believe is up to you.
An astronomer will, upon hearing that astrology is "solid scientific work", be likely to inform his audience it is not. I am an historian of religion. When having one of the countless nutty theories about the Bible or Christianity presented as fact, I will inform you all that it is nonsense. You are all free to believe nonsense. I don't care. But I will tell you what it is.
- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]
goo

janh:
and the scholarly articles you've submitted to peer reviewed journals are?
and the scholarly books on the history of religion you've written are?
goo (don’t feed the trolls class)
MacHislopp

Hello everyone,
I like the information given and to give my
opinion I've read the "Messianic Legacy " by Michael Baigent,
Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln. Quite interesting and many
reference to ancient writings, scrolls etc. Worth reading it!
Agape, J.C.MacHislopp
goo

forget it mac any scholar will tell you those books are nonsense -
even if that scholar has
never submitted a scholarly article to a peer reviewed journal
never written a scholarly book on the history of religion
in fact this scholar has never authored or created any body of work at all.
nor is there anything in concrete objective physical reality existing that proves this scholar is a scholar.
oh ok - except for this article due for submission to that well known peer review journal: I'D ASSUME THE WOMAN GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT (published bi-annualy):
Of 556 accusations of rape examined in an Air Force study, 27 percent of the accusers admitted, either just before taking a polygraph test or after failing one, that they had lied. - McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. "False Allegations." Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.
In a nine-year study of all resolved rape cases in a Midwestern U.S. city of 70,000, the accusers recanted their charges 41 percent of the time. The 41 percent figure does not include the other accusations that the police department recorded as unfounded, for which there was insufficient evidence to establish the assault. - Kanin, Eugene J., Ph.D. "False Rape Allegations." Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No. 1 (1994), pp 81-92.
A survey of all the forcible rape complaints during a three-year period at two large Midwestern state universities found that 50 percent of the accusations were false. At each university, the complaints and investigations were the responsibility of a ranking female officer, and no complaint was declared false unless there was a recantation by the accuser. Fifty-three percent of the accusations were motivated by a need for an alibi; revenge was the motive for 44 percent. - Kanin, Eugene J., Ph.D. "False Rape Allegations." Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 23, No.1 (1994), pp 81-92.
he has however -
studied with scholars (who hasn't?)
and he does know scholars (who doesn't?)
does this make him a scholar - yes!!
why -
because he says so - look -
when ideas presented in an article are ridiculous, I don't consider reading the whole book. This is the way all scholars work, since reading time is limited and valuable, and there is way too much chaff out there to wade through.
(besides reading a whole book cuts into scholarly time that could be far more efficiently utilised goofing off in internet chat rooms for years on end).
and thats all the proof we dare ask for.
i would never try and argue with someone who knows a scholar -
mac you are free to believe nonsense. there's a scholar here who doesn't care. But he will tell you what it is.
goo. (stupid troll awaiting deletion because a person who knows a scholar requested it class.)
dark clouds

thank you for sharing your opinions janh
i feel i speak for a many here when i say we can figure out for ourselves
what we, as individuals should choose to believe
and what we personally, should choose to disregard. . .
personally
i chose to disregard your claim to being a scholar...
$19.99 mail-in certificates don't hold much weight.
and neither do your words. . .
But I have indeed read some articles on this subject written by these authors.---janh
The main conspiracy theory of the "Death Sea Scroll Deceeption", is just laughable and without merit, though. I have not read the books,---janh
ok so which is it?
did you read the works mentioned before
or did you read articles written by the authors?
or better yet, i'll ask again
did you borrow the opinions?
after experiencing and exiting the borg janh,
i sincerely hope that if you gained anything from it,
it was the ability to make up your own mind.
by the way you come across
it really is a wonder that you in fact did leave.
as i have said before
the "education" recieved through the Awake magazine doesn't mean much here in this forum.
if your contempt was so adamant towards the WT publications you would have my empathy.
by the way the way you flip/flop
you should seriously consider politics. . .
I'm a skeptic. I'm not religious. I don't believe in any ‘supernatural agents’ -- gods or God -- and I don't particularly disbelieve it either.---janh
as far as my education i dont need to make claims as to boost my ego
i know where i have been and i know what i have read
and i have a clear mind for bullshit
especialy for those that play both sides of the fence.
CHUCK

The Hiram key

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