Fraud?

by NICKITA 39 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Yerusalyim

  To some extent, yes, it is the POWER issue. Power is for sure an elixur stonger than money to those who've had it. Also, yes, they are a product of their own cult mindset. I garuntee Rutheford and Russel gained financially. Besides, you think the stock they own in the Corporation doesn't give them some pocket change?

  Just my take on it. Some are true beleivers, some beleive in the posiiton and power and privelege.

  YERUSALYIM
  There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
  Shakespere: Hamlet
• 

  messenger

  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! oh please, stop my sides are hurting.....where are you from, a little congregation in eastern kentucky?? your questions are just amazing. lets see, where do we begin. the money, if the money went to the society why is it made out in personal checks to gb members?? why would not they just have it made out to wt and send it up for the www. why? because it goes into their pockets, into swiss banks, stock. jewelry, what whatever excess they may wish to purchase. did you ever see a gb in a cheap suit? wear a cheap watch? have on a cheap pair of shoes? eat at a McDonalds? they do not have to buy a home they live in a mansion (patterson) with every need taken care of, why would they want to move out. they have gardners, cooks, maids, security, butlers, chauffers, not one wealthy person lives as well as these guys.
  i have yet to see a gb turn down a promenient meal or overnight accomadation for a lesser one. it is always first class with top dollar being spent. at the conventions you may have seen them shying away for the simple reason they were sick of being around people. that's why they will stay in a back room with security to keep the little nobodys away. if you are the guy with the checks you can visit anytime anywhere. oh yes, and how many of the gb have you ever...ever...ever...seen work in the field ministry, or how many when they are home, actually attend meetings, do you really know??little one, you may be shocked to know the real answer to that question. most would be considered inactive by standard jw procedures.
  finally, the travel thing? fishing trips, skiing trips, sight seeing trips, you name they do it on a very regular basis. if they are up to it health wise the perks are unending. if not they have 24 hour care, with every need being taken care of. how many old rich people have that kind of deal? i am sure this will not make sense of this information either, the only thing that will make sense to you is the cult dream world your poor little brain can comprehend. thinking outside the wt box is so hard to do. i remember a phrase once used,"a person who cannot think is an idiot, a person who refuses to think is a fool, and a person who is afraid to think is a coward", it seems you are not thinking. which are you, fool, idiot, or coward, either choice shows the facts...
• 

  bigboi

  Hey Nickita:

  I think the GB does believe it is doing God's work on earth today. I think they are sincere in that belief. However the trouble comes in when they base this on the bible and use it to promote beliefs and policies that are out of harmony with it's message. Also a key insight into their character is how they react when a false statement made by them is brought to their attention. Any active witness who persists in believing something that is out of harmony with present WTS teachings will be df'd. So in other words if the GB is publishing a lie, and a jw doesn't want to follow that lie he or she can be thrown out of the congregation. Is that a fraudulent way of handling things of that nature? Well at the very least it is an unjust way of dealing with such a matter and is wholly unsupported in scripture.

  The money issue comes in this way. Why would the GB be so insistent upon uniformity, even to the point of jeopardizing it's own "righteous standing" with the Creator and even thousand's of "true worshippers" associated with it? Even dealing with a person who is just standing up for truth so callously and unjustly. Well there are billions of reasons why they would do it.

  Peace:
  Biboi

  "..... anyone who ignores everyday reality in order to live up to an ideal will soon discover he had been taught how to destroy himself, not how to preserve himself." The Prince. Niccolo Machiavelli.
• 

  dark clouds

  bigboi
  messenger
  cheers
  well said
• 

  paulvarjak

  I agree with bigboi, I don't think that they are necessarily evil men or knowingly fraudulent, but there allegiance lies with the organization. While they feel that they are doing "God's work", any organization eventually comes to the point of self perpetuation. As well meaning as any individual might be, if he feels he is at the helm of a "spirit directed organization", then the organization must be protected at all cost. When that sort of misplaced duty combines with false premises and doctrine the only way for the perpetuation to continue is by means of strict control of the adherents.
• 

  willy_think

  alot of people think the GB thinks they are in service to God. that is all well and good to think but, someone somewhere, did a lot of research in to mind control techniques (the WTB&TS inc. is, maby the best in the world) and the wt reads like it was written by a shifty lawyer. look at the blood and other public relations problems, how have they addressed them? they have cut and run, leaving the r&f jws holding the bag, the blame and the guilt. they have made decisions like, to annul the baptism of a mentally ill man (sentising him to the "grave"), because he was an embarassment to them.
  
  you see them as what they do, not what they say. they are making decisions from a certin position. well what is there position?? are they taking care of the flock or the corporate interests? i think, based on the changes that i have been made aware of, that thay are in a period of flux. they are revamping the the "society" to make it financially viable in the future.

  someone somewhere knows and is in control of "the ministry of truth"

  the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
• 

  outnfree

  Nickita,

  I have a serious problem with something alluded to above by Bigboi when he says "a key insight into their character is how they react when a false statement made by them is brought to their attention."

  How much havoc actually IS wreaked on loyal Jehovah's Witnesses when they are said to "run ahead" of the organization and are penalized for recognizing a false doctrine and feeling conscience-bound to resist or ignore it? There are many instances of "flip-flops" in Watchtower doctrine. If just 1/10 of 1% of Witnesses saw the error in some of these doctrines and were disfellowshipped or disassociated themselves because of refusing to accept "new light" how many families were torn asunder? How many friendships lost? How many persons were left spiritually adrift, feeling emotionally overwrought because they were GOOD JW's but just couldn't toe the new line?

  Now tell me this: how many of those who "ran ahead" and were DF'd were invited back into the Organization once the Governing Body changed direction yet again? Please find me ONE and I'll feel much, much better about how the GB wields its power as "GOD's organization"!!! (It seems blasphemous to even write that. Sigh!) God doesn't make such mistakes that hurt his faithful adherents -- does He? God forgives doesn't he?

  I think the others have made enough points about the benefits of membership in the GB and Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz might be a good read for you so that you can understand the inner workings. You will be surprised.

  One last note: I was having doubts and having doubts, but not taking any action. My husband is Catholic, so our children attend Catholic schools. I received home a note that was letting parents know about all the special arrangements that were going to be made because the Bishop was going to come to school to celebrate mass! A special luncheon, children performing special songs, parents invited to have a role in the Mass. It emotionally paralled so perfectly all the hype and excitement that comes with a CO or DO visit to the Kingdom Hall that it finally dawned on me that the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society was just another overgrown, out of touch, hierarchical BUSINESS. We had Brooklyn. They had the Vatican. -- With all the layers of "special ones" in between! (And that was BEFORE I read C of C!)

  Take the rose-colored glasses off, sweetie. The GB members have PLENTY of prominence -- among the JW rank & file, which is where it counts, in their view!

  outnfree
• 

  apostate

  Don't forget they baned organ transplant, blood transfusion, etc.
  Many witnesses lost their lives following the GB's rules. They can't just stop saying we are not God's spoksmen.

  Can you imagine what would follow? They would spend the rest of their lives in jail.
• 

  Scorpion

  The Governing Body are evil puppets.
• 

  NICKITA

  Expatbrit:

  How can you say:

  "No doubt they really do believe they are God's channel on Earth"

  and then state:

  "the more out of the spotlight they stay, the less critical attention focused upon them, the easier it is for them to ensnare yet more people"

  If they are sincere in their belief, how can it be said they are scheming to "ensnare" others? Wouldn't they just be doing their best to promote what they believe (sincerely, although, in your opinion, mistakenly) is the Truth, to persuade others?

  Messenger:

  "they do not have to buy a home they live in a mansion (patterson) with every need taken care of, why would they want to move out. they have gardners, cooks, maids, security, butlers, chauffers, not one wealthy person lives as well as these guys"

  The same can be said of all Bethelites no matter their task. They all have access to the same services made available to the family.

  "how many of the gb have you ever...ever...ever...seen work in the field ministry, or how many when they are home, actually attend meetings, do you really know??little one, you may be shocked to know the real answer to that question"

  Do YOU really know? Do YOU know the real answer to that question? Then please tell me the FACTS. I promise you I won't be shocked.

  "the travel thing? fishing trips, skiing trips, sight seeing trips, you name they do it on a very regular basis"

  Skiing trips? At their age? Wow, what are they, supermen or what?

  I think the only balanced opinion I've read so far is that of Moxy. Thank you.