Question for believers, heaven or earth? (page 2)

prologos

It can not be on an eternal earth, for the Sun would have to be purged of its helium, and re -supplied with Hydrogen. Not only a new Earth, a new heavenly Sun too. As far as we know, the deist's creator does not violate his laws, even natural laws; so if you are conscious after your last breath, be very surprised, hopefully pleasantly.

Tornintwo

Platinum fix - the point I was trying to make, is I don't believe it would be right to go back to old testament and ISIS style punishments, stoning for adultery, stoning for homosexuality, stoning for teenage rebellion. The point I am making is that in modern educated society, the 'decent' people generally believe that such sins do not merit murder. That isn't condoning adultery, which is wrong and I am sure and have witnessed, very painful to be a victim of.

PlatinumFix

@Tornintwo - Yea I know and I hope my post didn't come over harshly. Certain aspects of life seem to be about luck/chance, whatever you wana call it finding a partner, job etc. Some people seem to have all the 'luck' they meet someone nice, love/enjoy their job, settle down, have great friends and others dont i.e they're unemployed can't find/get work, wrong choice of partner/can't get a partner or they just scrape by financially. Now I'm just waffling :)

It would be nice if God renewed the earth, see dead loved ones again..I mean how many people would love to restart life and make different choices? Whose to say life would be any better in heaven.

Tornintwo

Hi PF, no worries....I get it. "How many people would love to restart life and make different choices?" yep, me, don't become a Jehovahs Witness, get an education, save more money......and so on...

FayeDunaway

Yeah I really admire people who say 'no regrets' but unfortunately that's far from how I feel...despite being really thankful for all my many blessings.

Back to the OP, torn I am a believer, as you know, and go to church. Most Protestant churches believe (tho they don't talk about it much) that people go to heaven, and sometime in the future, there is an earthly hope, when 'the tent of God will be with them.' They do not speculate too much on the details, but an earthly hope is definitely in their belief system. I personally yearn for both heaven and earth.

Incidentally, in my mainline church, hell is spoken of as a 'separation from God.'

I agree about many, many passages in the Old Testament that bother me. I feel that Jesus came to earth to explain what God is, and before that there was a primitive understanding. And taking a fundamentalist view of the scriptures is unhealthy, but allowing for human favoritism and weakness and the times it was written in, and errors of translation...allows me to keep some perspective on it.

Londo111

I believe it matters more to the Watchtower organization that JWs believe a certain way than it does to the average Christian, who has freedom of thought, as to what hope they entertain in regards an eternal future.

However that said, many of the JW prooftexts for paradise earth are flimsy and a result of eisegesis, rather than exegesis. When one looks at the context, considers what the writer originally met and their mindset, it does not prove Watchtower interpretation.

For instance, in the original languages, the word some translations have for ‘earth’ basically means ‘land’. It can also mean ‘soil’, depending on the context. Did the writer mean ‘earth’ as in the planet as we conceive it? It seems unlikely.

Take Psalm 37:29…it can easily be translated as one translation does: “The righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it permanently.” The word translated as ‘forever’ is olam, which really means an indefinite period of time. Is the passage and context talking about the eternal hope of individuals? Or is it rather talking about the righteous as a class?

Similarly, passages such as Isaiah 65, when viewed in context, are clearly about Judah and Jerusalem and the return from Exile and speaks about it in poetic language. In the passage, people still die of old age! The Watchtower does acknowledge this in the publications, but they talk about an “initial fulfillment” and a second, and sometimes third fulfillment. But where is the evidence for additional fulfillments?

It really comes down to interpretation of Bible texts. But whenever someone presents ‘prooftexts’, a person needs to ask if the interpretation of these is exegesis or eisegesis.

Viviane

My problem is that now I doubt the Bible.

I fail to see the problem.

Crazyguy

There are Scripture s stating Davids line would rule forever never be broken, yet during the Persian period it was. So just because a Scripture says will live forever on earth, so what. And according to the jws it staid broken until 1914.

nicolaou

atheists, if you must post on this thread please be nice!

Well try not throwing out barely concealed insults then . . .

TheListener

FayeDunaway's post is great and when I was a witness I had NO IDEA that most protestants felt that way.

When I found that out it shook me a lot. I've mentioned it to my wife but nothing get through her thought stopping process.

TNT, about your OP, I really don't even know how I feel these days. I could see myself identifying with Deism but I don't understand all its nuances. I am no longer afraid that God will kill me for my choices and I am willing to admit that I have no idea what will happen to me when I die. Does that make me nervous? Sometimes. When talking to a dub or even my wife I always identify with an earthly paradise to maintain common ground.

Question for believers, heaven or earth?

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