Do Any JW's Believe The End Will Come In Their Lifetime???

by minimus 36 Replies latest jw friends

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  proplog2

  Minimus:

  Proplog, most Witnesses would call you an "apostate" and maybe even a "false prophet".

  Do those labels mean anything to YOU? What is your intention of saying that? Why don't you answer some questions and engage in the dialog you seem to want to stimulate by your many questions? Do you think that YOU are the question asker and therefore you don't need to answer questions? There is an old technique that Fritz Perls (psychiatrist) used to encourage honest communication. Turn your questions into demands. So I will now rephrase the above question as demands. Minimus: Tell me straight forward that YOU think I am "just" another apostate and perhaps a dreaded "false prophet"!!! I think you are still subject to JW think. Those words "apostate" and "false prophet" still carry weight of a sort with you otherwise you wouldn't bring them up without explaining your intentions in making such an obvious statment. I almost forgot - YOU are the question asker and therefore you don't need to answer questions. You left one of my questions unanswered about what you would do if JW's determined that the destruction of NYC is the disgusting thing standing where it ought not and therefore is a signal to begin an orderly exit of JW's from the United States? Let me add to that. Suppose NYC is destroyed. JW's leave the USA to live with their brothers in South America. Then it is discovered that the bomb that destroyed NYC was a Russian Nuke and Putin is implicated. Next the USA makes demands that the Russians disarm to prevent a recurrence. The Russians are at that point clearly in a use 'em or loose 'em situation. Would you think that perhaps you would be better off in the Southern Hemisphere?
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  proplog2

  jgnat:

  I'm still eating the cans of tuna. Quite a few bottles of water left too.

  No actually I AM a false prophet. At least the date was soon enough that no one needed to alter their lives. I am still pondering whether the counting of days has any significance as a prediction of when trouble begins. The various prophecies that involve days seem to be based on accurately interpreting some special event as the beginning and THEN you count days to the end of trouble. This is the best of all possible worlds. Something has to happen to trigger the counting of days.

  I figure if it it hasn't started you have approximately 2300 days before the trouble ends. This would mean that the 2300 days ends at some significant point on the calendar from which you can count backwards. If you consider Nisan 14 a "special day" then the 2300 days counting backward would bring you to some point in the Month of December/January. If you count 2300 days back from the Jewish New Year you would end up in May/June. The 2300 days backward counting would bring you to June 3rd this year. But I don't see anything ominous shaping up - except perhaps maybe a possible peace breakthrough between Israel & Palestine. Bush has threatened sanctions against Israel if it doesn't proceed in good faith.

  The December situation seemed more ominous.

  Again, I think of this as a game UNTIL.... something significant happens: like the destruction of New York City. The point is to stay awake!
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  minimus

  Proplog, I don't think anything about whether the Watchtower Society changed their prophecy to include New York City as being a fulfillment of the "disgusting thing". I don't care what they say or think. They mean nothing to me. They have proven themselves to be "false prophets" and "apostate". How's that for JW think??? And I think that JW's in general would feel that you too, are a "false prophet" and "apostate"......Hope this helps answer your questions.
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  rocketman

  People can only sacrifice material and career prospects and chase the carrot for so long, and as time has passed, many jws are finally starting to realize that all the sacrfice of their jw forebears was of no use at all. Not wanting a repeat of those mistakes, they are pursuing some of the amenities and necessities that life has to offer.
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  proplog2

  minimus:

  Your answer is fogged over by your failure to note the exact scenario I am suggesting.

  I didn't say that the Watchtower simply changes their interpretation to

  "include New York City as being (A?) fullfilment of the "disgusting thing".

  I gave a very specific scenario:

  1. New York City is destroyed. This means Wall street, Empire State Building, Chrysler Building, The symbol of American Prosperity and business. New York..New York. Dead = 800,000. Damage 1 Trillion dollars.

  2. JW's decide to leave the USA. because after this "extraordinary" event they discover that the USA is going to undergo a destruction that parallels the AD 70 situation with Jerusalem.

  3. Finger of blame is pointing toward Putin & Russia. Hostilities escalating between the USA & Russia.

  And to that you respond:

  They mean nothing to me. They have proven themselves to be "false prophets" and "apostate".

  I think in that situation you and many others on this forum would have second thoughts. Of course you can say "this is a hypothetical situation". But it is a situation that has come into the realm of high probability since 9/11.

  You can blame me for getting carried away with speculation - but this is no longer simply "WILD" speculation. It is part of the calculus of civil defense authorities, defense department, and insurance actuaries.

  I speculate. But you and many others here are in denial.

  This is HOW you are in denial.

  It isn't simply a matter of saying "I don't worry about things I can't do anything about." But you make fun of JW's because they have been talking about this kind of thing for a hundred plus years. Sure they have goofed up on a lot of this. The first century Christians (especially John) thought it was the final hour when it wasn't. Almost everyone who has become a JW - joined because they are basically affraid of "the things coming upon the inhabited earth" Luke 21:26

  When these things REALLY do begin to happen what is going to enable YOU to "raise yourselves erect and lift your heads up"? Are you going to be content to think that congress, or the President is going to put a positive spin on everything? Maybe Yerusalym will keep his gun clean and his ammunition dry.

  Metatron tries to bring his positive thinking to this board. Technology is wonderful. We are on the verge of curing cancer, and every disease known to man. We are figuring out how to keep the teleomeres from unraveling and stop aging. We are experimenting with anti-gravity technologies, unlimited energy sources, drugs to enhance our thinking abilities. But one bomb can suck the money out of the pool and dry up serious research for a 100 years.

  There is one thing about JW's that prepares them for survival. They are free of the gravitational pull of nationalism. If the USA looks like its going to go down they have an escape. They can flee to their brothers in other lands. The "brotherhood" DOES have survival value. The average person can't pick up and escape. Unless of course they have relatives in a safe (safer) haven. Many Jews who had relatives in other countries were able to arrange exit and escape the holocaust. JW's have relatives (brothers) all over the world that can provide refuge. You don't build an organization like that over night. It takes at least a 100 years of hard work like JW's have been doing to develop a significant organization. People wouldn't do that if they thought the "end" was a hundred years away. They have to believe it is going to happen to "them" in "their" lifetime. At this point there are enough JW's in South America to house the million JW's in North America.

  It may be that you (minimus) will miss the train out. I'm sure there are a lot of JW's that would drop out of the organization when they are presented with the option of taking their chances in the USA or having to give everything up to live with a bunch of poor people in South America. So be it. "If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is meant for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones."

  Of course it remains to be seen what WILL happen. But don't mock those who have invested their lives in promises of survival.
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  minimus

  Proplog, I mean no disrespect to you but I think you're presenting your beliefs in such a way that you expect to believe it. I don't. And that's it. If you're rihjt and I'm wrong, at least you can say that you tried to be a "watchman".
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  proplog2

  minimus:

  Since 9/11 it doesn't take much insight to predict dire events in the near future. How you interpret the "meaning" of those events is what is important.