WTS says faith is not enough! (Worship Bk chap 8)

ozziepost

Most people would think that having faith is what is required for a christian. But it seems the Borg is saying that something more than faith is required.

That seems to be the thinking in chapter 8 of the recently released book “Worship the Only True God”. This publication is the second of the “must read” books for baptism candidates. What are they learning about “true Christianity” TM ? Let’s look into chapter 8 “Wrestling Against Wicked Spirit Forces”.

“'Who is the one that conquers the world but he who has faith that Jesus is the Son of God? (1 John 5:5)' ........What else is required? "(page 49)

Notice the question "What else is required?" What scriptural admonition could be in store for the new recruit?

Well, it's no "new light"! Instead, it's something that does not surprise many who've grown accustomed to the manipulation of the scriptures found in WTS publications. So the paragraph continues:

"That we stay close to the congregation of which he is Head." Surprise, surprise!

But is that what the scriptures teach? Scriptures such as Ephesians 2:8 & 9 come to mind: "By grace are you saved through faith not of works lest any man should boast."

Interestingly, the paragraph does not offer any scriptural 'proof' for their teaching that faith is not enough.

Cheers, Ozzie

plmkrzy

Its a good thing for all the up and coming baptism candidates these books are available. Actually, it might not be a bad idea for all those who were baptized pre-1990's to get re-baptized, after taking the exam of course, just to be on the safe side. That would really suck to be destroyed at Armageddon on a technicality like invalid baptism due to old light.

DJ

Ozzie,

Did you ever consider why this faith vs. works thing is an issue. I have given it a lot of thought. The bible does teach us that we are saved by grace thru faith...absolutley BUT....there is a difference between a faith says "I believe in Jesus" and does whatever they want to do in life not considering their behaviors, etc.... AND those who understand that to believe in Christ for salvation means to believe in Him by being obedient in following Him and heeding the holy spirit's convictions. There is something very wrong about those who teach to simply believe is just literally the act of believing. There is a kind of saving faith that leads us to obedience thru love. Jesus said that those who love him will do as he says...in the states there are 2 sects of Christians (BA's) one teaches that the verbal "I believe" is enough and that they need not be concerned over their sinful ways because they are saved. They are called the "No Lordship" as opposed to the "Lordship" teachers who also believe that professing Christ is important but equally important is possessing Christ aka Holy spirit. This is why good works come thru faith...as a result of that saving faith. Faith without works is dead...true..but James is speaking about not having love by giving to those in need. Works are important. I say all of this because my life has been wasted by the jw teaching that BA's think that they just have to say magic wods like I believe in Jesus and that's it, they are saved. That is a false teaching and a false rendering of what Chritians believe. It is our daily walk with Christ in obedience to Him that makes a Christian. Our ability to obey Him has nothing to do with anyone but Him.

Do you have those kind of churches in OZ that teach just calling on the name of Jesus is what is to be done to be saved? People take that literally!! Faith is not a name game. It is a way of life...being born again results in changes, that we desire to do what is pleasing to God, not because someone threatened us but because we have the new desire from our hearts. I'm sure that you agree and I wrote this for the benefit of those who think that BA's teach that works are not important. Works are a result of this saving faith. love, dj

ozziepost

Do you have those kind of churches in OZ that teach just calling on the name of Jesus is what is to be done to be saved?

Possibly. Frankly I find in my experience a call to individual faith and so downunder it's not a matter of what a church teaches at all. Would you believe I don't recall hearing such a thing? And that sits very comfortably with Mrs Ozzie and I who proclaim the christian faith as our personal belief and are happy to share and attend at all manner of churches. We have our personal favourite kind of worship service but it's never a matter of proclaiming one church over another. Yet that, of course, is what the dubs do and I fear that many leave dubdom still thinking in terms of 'the right organisation'.

Thanks for your comments on another thread. Of course, this issue of faith and works is not new. Just look at the Bible book of James to see that in the very early churches this was not fully understood. Naturally it's possible to go to extremes, neither of which are correct. However, there can be no doubt that faith comes first, the works follow as a natural outcome of that faith. For the R&F of dubdom, works are a pre-requisite to acceptance within the fellowship. This is roundly contradicted by James.

Cheers, Ozzie

plmkrzy

For the R&F of dubdom, works are a pre-requisite to acceptance within the fellowship. This is roundly contradicted by James.

Among the things listed on the jw works pre-requisite is: The filling out of the application before one can be officially accepted as someone who has faith and accepts "Jesus" into their life.. I would imagine James would have a bit of a problem with that as well. But then I could be wrong.

ozziepost

James would probably be very surprised to see that the Borg doesn't include Jesus much at all!

Cheers, Ozzie

Joker10

faith must be accompanied by works

Blueblades

When Adam sinned,the whole of mankind was put on death row,it did not matter if you believed this or not.It did not matter that you did good or bad works.what you did or believed did not matter.It was what Adam did that mattered,belief and works had nothing to do with it.

When Jesus obeyed,the whole world was released from death row,it does not matter if you believed this or not.It did not matter that you did good or bad works.What you did or believed did not matter.It was what Jesus did that mattered,belief and works had nothing to do with it.

The reality screams out at mankind Adam-Death,History proves this out.

The reality screams out at mankind Jesus-life,History does NOT prove this out.

So, the 2,000 yr.old debt that has been paid is long overdue or ??????????

Blueblades

plmkrzy

No kidding Sir Ozzie, if not completely pissed off.

faith must be accompanied by works

so...what are you trying to say?
We actually have to..like..like..tell the truth? And...like.be good to people?

It was what Adam did that mattered,belief and works had nothing to do with it.
When Jesus obeyed,the whole world was released from death row

Another ( or a diferent way) way to look at this could center around 2 lines from what you wrote.

1) It was what Adam did that mattered, Eve's belief and his works had everything to do with it

2) When Jesus obeyed, the whole world was released from death-without-hope-of-any-salvation

Perhaps?

Unless you have died already and came back only to repeat your own history

then one can't really say for sure that mankind is long over due for a... non-death expierence.

ignored_one

Joker10,

Such as?

Ignored One.

WTS says faith is not enough! (Worship Bk chap 8)

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