Jews practiced human sacrifice (page 2)

peacefulpete

An additional example..The famous Abraham and Issac story has BOTH going up the mountain but ONLY Abraham coming back. It is felt by experts in textural critism that later editors adjusted the story by melding it with a another story. I am at work now but the element of a ram being miraculously provided for sacrifice by entangling it in a bush is from Greek mythology.

gumby

Many of the books of the Old Testament are believed by historians to have
been written down after the hebrew captivity in Babylonia (586-538 B.C.E.)
Because many of the Babylonian legends appear to be older than the birth of
Moses and the hebrew nation--many scholars believe that the ancient Babylonian
culture impacted the hebrews. (Another view, of course, would be that the
Babylonians and the hebrews "shared" a common past.)

Basically the hebrews were copycats.

Gumby

peacefulpete

another...ex 13:1,2 The first born of animal and human was to belong to Yahweh and be offered up. Later editor added the part about buying back the right to live to soften the idea of God wanting human sacrifice..

ThiChi

A plain english reading does not always do full justice to the original meaning, so it is quite handy that Jewish historian Josephus comments on this incident:

"However, this action that was to befall her was not ungrateful to her, since she should die upon occasion of her father's victory, and the liberty of her fellow citizens: she only desired her father to give her leave, for two months, to bewail her youth with her fellow citizens; and then she agreed, that at the forementioned thee he might do with her according to his vow. Accordingly, when that time was over, he sacrificed his daughter as a burnt-offering..." Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews 8:10

Strong evidence that Jephthah did indeed sacrifice his daughter as a burnt offering.

ThiChi

Another viewpoint:

"...he sacrificed his daughter as a burnt-offering, offering such an oblation as was neither conformable to the law nor acceptable to God, not weighing with himself what opinion the hearers would have of such a practice." Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews 8:10

He is also condemned in the Apostolical Constitutions, B. VII. ch. 37. It is clear that Jephthah was wrong in both making the vow and going through with it for a number of reasons:

1. Jephthah was foolish not to consider that his daughter might be the first to greet him. (it seemed quite a common event after a great victory - e.g. 1 Samuel 18:6)
2. Burnt offerings were to be used strictly as guilt offerings, not thanksgivings to God or vows. Jephthah missed the point.
3. The sixth commandment "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13) makes it a sin to kill anyone unless specifically instructed to do so by God.
4. Human sacrifices are a gross violation of the Levitical law (Leviticus 18:21) and are condemned in Deuteronomy 12:31
5. Jephthah was entitled to redeem his daughter for the equivalent sum of money under Leviticus 27, so there was a way out. (even if he did not have enough money, he could have arranged a reasonable fee with a Preist to redeem his daughter).
6. Under Leviticus 22:18-19, all burnt offerings must be male.

So not only was Jephthah incredibly foolish and irresponsible to make such a vow, but was extremely foolish to go through with what Josephus describes as 'neither conformable to the law nor acceptable to God'. Maybe he considered his vow to God more important than God's law and righteousness, maybe, as some scholars suggest, he was influenced by the pagan religions that inhabited the area at that time which practised human sacrifice. Whatever he was thinking, it is quite clear that he made the wrong choice.

bebu

In my mind, Jepthah very probably did sacrifice his daughter. Does this prove that what he did was accepted practice by Jews for centuries?? No. Was Jepthah grieved by this oath? Yes.

Does the Bible state that God was pleased with this? No. God's reaction is not recorded; in fact, the book of Judges is filled with what people did when people just did "what was right in their own eyes." It's kind of the theme of the book, if you read it in any direction.

It is hard to say why God allowed the daughter to come forward. It seems they recorded this because of the realization that they would be responsible for making rash oaths. [Didn't cure them of it, though. There were a group of Jews who bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until Paul was dead... and God delivered Paul, so these guys either had to starve to death (keeping the oath) or else break that oath. I personally think that God would not have held them to that oath if they had repented of their murderous ideas first.]

None of the "proofs" that have been presented on the thread so far has impressed me. Do you have anything more substantial, or is this it??? (Seriously!)

bebu

edited to add: I'm not disputing that human sacrifice ever existed/was practiced. It apparently did in Canaan, and it was, I recall, one of the reasons God judged the people there so fiercely. I also don't dispute that the Israelites began to follow pagan practices, including human (child) sacrifice, during the time of the divided kingdom... This lead to the exile, another judgement from God. But what impartial evidence has shown that the nation embraced this practice as part of the Jewish religion? That God endorsed it?

Faraon

He is also condemned in the Apostolical Constitutions, B. VII. ch. 37. It is clear that Jephthah was wrong in both making the vow and going through with it for a number of reasons:
1. Jephthah was foolish not to consider that his daughter might be the first to greet him. (it seemed quite a common event after a great victory - e.g. 1 Samuel 18:6)
2. Burnt offerings were to be used strictly as guilt offerings, not thanksgivings to God or vows. Jephthah missed the point.
3. The sixth commandment "You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13) makes it a sin to kill anyone unless specifically instructed to do so by God.
4. Human sacrifices are a gross violation of the Levitical law (Leviticus 18:21) and are condemned in Deuteronomy 12:31
5. Jephthah was entitled to redeem his daughter for the equivalent sum of money under Leviticus 27, so there was a way out. (even if he did not have enough money, he could have arranged a reasonable fee with a Preist to redeem his daughter).
6. Under Leviticus 22:18-19, all burnt offerings must be male.

Maybe he uttered his oath in public and rather than loose face he went ahead with his vow?

peacefulpete

Bebu and thi chi.. both of you seem to have missed the very point of this thread. The religion of the people we call Jews was like all religions, evolving. The OT went thru at least 5 periods of redaction to conflate contradicting stories and update the theology. It is only due to the popularity of certain tales that much more was not edited out. Sometimes the way the editor chose to deal with a now embarassing passage was not thorough enough and clues to the original meaning an be detected. As to suggesting that Jeptha was guilty of some personal screw up (oops I vowed to burn my daughter so I guess I had better do it) is ridiculous. The Bible says Yahweh continued to bless him as Judge of Isreal and helped him kill 42,000 Ephraimites because they refused to support him. Heb 11:32 lists him as a model man of faith. If he did something so horrible as burning his daughter to Yahweh don't you think he would have been at least demoted in the story if in fact Yahweh was not pleased? The later overlay upon the OT has Yahweh condemning human sacrifice in a number of places, but this was not always the case. The other examples listed here also create a picture very consistant with the primative cults in the land at the time.

bebu

The religion of the people we call Jews was like all religions, evolving. The OT went thru at least 5 periods of redaction to conflate contradicting stories and update the theology. It is only due to the popularity of certain tales that much more was not edited out. Sometimes the way the editor chose to deal with a now embarassing passage was not thorough enough and clues to the original meaning an be detected.

This is very interesting. And I do agree that all religions evolve in different ways. But I am still not convinced here that just because some people THINK or SUSPECT that any particular redaction has occurred doesn't give enough proof for me to just join the chorus.

What other evidence are you relying on for your statements?

bebu

Here's a website that touches on the redaction/human sacrifice issue. It is actually an examination of Ezekiel 20:25-26 where the Lord gives "bad commandments". It is an interesting defense from the traditional viewpoint.

http://www.bu.edu/mzank/STR/tr-archive/tr8/bad-commandments.html

Jews practiced human sacrifice

Another viewpoint:

"...he sacrificed his daughter as a burnt-offering, offering such an oblation as was neither conformable to the law nor acceptable to God, not weighing with himself what opinion the hearers would have of such a practice." Josephus - Antiquities of the Jews 8:10

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