The name of God

by ClassAvenger 12 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • ClassAvenger
    ClassAvenger

    Hi. I have a friend who is a Jehovah Witness. Once we started talking about prayer, and I told him that we referred to God as 'Lord', or 'God', or 'Father', for reverence or respect, although we did not have prohibited to say Jehovah. He said that I was wrong, that it was necessary to state that the prayer was for Jehovah and not any other God. He had several arguments, I will list them here:

    • "God" is like a title, there are many false gods created by men, and that Satan was the god of evil.
    • In Matthew 6:9, in the prayer done by Jesus, he states "Hallowed be thy name." According to him, we sanctify or bless his name by saying it.
    • State that the prayer was for Jehovah and not any other god.
    • Demons flee when they hear God's name, Jehovah.

    I want to have some strong arguments to backfire at him. I know that there is no winning a discussion with a Jehovah Witness, but I need to give him an answer to support my beliefs. Some people in here are very knowledgeable on the bible, so I am seeking their help. Thanks for the information. - Class Avenger

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    We never call our own parents by their first name, and I see no need to call our heavenly father by his name. I think it is very disrespectful.

    Witnesses will argue this, saying they are showing respect by calling out his name, and as you mentioned, perhaps not to confuse this with any other god. However, they also teach that He is the only God, so that really does not make any sense.

    I think it is perfectly acceptable, and right, to call him Father, Heavenly Father, Lord, etc. When I pray, he knows it is Him that I am praying to.

  • DJ
    DJ

    Oh my............you hit on the major hang up with witnesses. I believe that they are only fooling themselves because first of all the tetragrammaton in the bible which is YWYH has no consonants and the names Jehovah and Yahweh are basically guesses. Rev. has jah in it, which is like a nick-name but that still doesn't tell us how to pronounce the full name. Having said that, I wonder how they can guess at a pronunciation and then demand that we use it....?? In Acts it says that Jesus is the only named by which men can be saved. I think that the jw's put [other] there on their translation in order to make it seem as if we need another name..They do that alot, the like [other] in Colossians too. It changes the meaning and "other" is not found in the original Greek. They basically just added it because they feel the need to separate the Father and the Son because of their hate for the trinity. Also, the tetragram was not in the original Greek writings. IF.....some of the gospels were ever written in Hebrew...we don't have them. So, it would be a guess as well.

    To the 1st question..."GOD is only a title--- That may be true but the apostles used GOD in their writings constantly. They didn't have a fear that some fake God would eavesdrop. God the Father is used very frequently. As a matter of fact, there is not one instance when Jesus prayed that he used the name Jehovah or Yahweh.... not once. He never prayed using a name. If it was that important then surely He would have prayed that way. He used Father and so do we, his children. The dubs are not considered Children of God, atleast I think that was the last "light" that I heard. They may change back and forth on this one. Naturally, it would follow that of they are not children then they would not use Father. I believe that only their 144,000 are considered the children of God. My opinion is that the jw's live in fear that if they pray to the Father or to God or to the Lord that the devil might answer. The jw's live in fear. In Romans, it says that we call out "abba" which means Father when we are given the holy spirit.

    To the 2nd question--hallowed be thy name--- It is hard to answer stupid question isn't it? If Jesus meant for us to sanctify the name by pronouncing it when we pray.....He would have done so there!! He didn't. Jesus was asked to show the people how to pray. Again, why didn't He say it there?? He was teaching them how to pray. I guess the jw's know how to pray better than Jesus did. Name, in the bible means more than a pronunciation anyway. Name is his very being. You can call out a name all you want and still be misled as to what the gospel teaches which means that God hasn't given you of his spirit.

    To the 3rd question....stating who the prayer is to--- again fear is the problem. Again, Jesus didn't feel the need to do that. Ask your friend to show you where in the bible....Jesus ever prayed or showed us to pray by using the any name. He never did.

    To the 4th question....demons flee--- Demons were cast out using Jesus name in the NT. He may show you where Jesus says that many will come in my name and say "Lord didn't we prophecy and cast out demons in your name?" Then Jesus tells them..that he never knew them and they were workers of lawlessness. Those verses do not mean that demons aren't cast out by Jesus, he is condemning them for being unrepetant sinners. Ask your friend how it could mean that demons are not to be cast out by Jesus anymore.....then why do the jw's prophecy is His name?? You cannot have it both ways....but the jw's will twist all of the bible to suit them and they are masters at twisting. It is done very sublty and you need to be cautious.

    There are may churches that use the name Jehovah. There even are songs in the hymn books using that name for the Father. If you ask a jw if those people in those churches pray, does God hear them?? They will say NO and tell you that they need "accurate Knowledge".(aka be a jw)...everything that your friend says is from a recording in his brain. He has answers drilled into him for every conceivable question. He is not able to think for himself anymore. He will fight you until you feel like you are going be sick. I don't know why you want to even go down this road with him. His mind is working overtime trying to convert you. Be careful and know your stuff or don't involve yourself at all. God bless. Don't cast out all of your pearls my friend. He will tear you up....just like the good book says.. they will. love, dj

  • ClassAvenger
    ClassAvenger

    Thanks for all the replies. Thanks DJ for your thorough explanation. This friend of mine does not want to lose me as a friend. He is a true friend and he has gone out of his way to keep being my friend. He sometimes tries to put aside the religion, but afterwords the thought comes back to him and he starts thinking that we should not be friends anymore. According to one of the lessons taught to him, making friends with the world is being an enemy of God. He is very desperate, he says he does not want to forget about me or get away from me, but he doesnt want to get dettached from Jehovah either. He is asking me what should we do about this problem, and I know that what he is waiting is for me to become a Jehovah Witness. I dont know what to tell him or what to answer, but my first step will be trying to respond to him about the God/Jehovah name subject with my utmost ability. Don't worry, I am strong in my faith although I am not very knowledgeable, but I know that if I look for the answers, they reinforce my Christian beliefs. Well, thanks and tell me or suggest what I should do about this situation.

  • DJ
    DJ

    Hi CA,
    I know what your friend is thinking because I was raised a jw. It is a very difficult process to be de-programmed from their false teachings. I am not surprised that he feels the need to come and go in your life. his main problem sadly, is that he cannot distinguish between God and the watchtower teachings. There needs to be a divorce between the two and he needs to pray for the holy spirit for his guidance. The jw teaching about the 144,000 is irroneous and he is unaware of that, therefore whatever they teach him.....he views it as coming from God himself! I would try to make him aware of some of the outrageous doctrinal flip flops that the governing body has taught. For instance, at one time did you know that they taught that if a married person engaged a homosexual relationship, it was NOT considered adultery and therefore the innocent spouse was not able to divorce? The same was true about beastiality!! They "got new light" and changed that though. There are many things like this and many people have been hurt by the false teachings because if you do not accept the "present light" then you are disfellowshipped and shunned. The present light turns into old light and new light and back and forth. They are forever tossed, never being able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Did you knoe that they teach that the "earthly class" (which your friend most likley is in) does not have Jesus as their mediator. Many witnesses do not even know that teaching. My mom didn't until I told her. They teach that the 144,000 are like the mediator and if they obey them then it is as if obeying Christ himself. The blood policy is full of hypocrisy as well..check out this site for some info. It is all accurate. www.ajwrb.org Another place for info is www.freeminds.org I wish you all the best. If you can get this friend to see that the governing body members of the watchtower society aka 144,000 are not speaking for God by showing him evidence of their lies ( only use their own books and magazines) then....you will be successful in helping him to divorce the watchtower from God. That is key. There is tons of info on the internet to be able to do this. It will take a lot of time and patience and love and be careful!! It will not be a pleasant ride for him until he is free in Christ. love, dj

  • ClassAvenger
    ClassAvenger

    Thanks for the response DJ. I have known this friend for quite some time, and I have learned a lot of the Jehovah Witness religion. I read somewhere that they get confused if a 'wordly' person shows love to them because they have been taught a lot of things about 'wordly' people. I have tried following God's word, or acting accordingly all this time to show him that we are not "misguided" people who don't follow the Word of God. I think that's a start, but I don't know how to start preaching to him in a way he won't reject me or just block himself from any incoming information. I once tried to show him a site, but he told me that they had told him at one of their reunions that they should not trust any webpage on the internet because it was full of apostates. I need some hard information, like two Watch Tower magazines which contradict each other. I know some contradictions have also happened in some of the books they have published. I would be very grateful if you could give me a site which lists contradictions in books, and shows the name of the book and page, so I can write those down and have him check it out himself. Well, thanks for all the information DJ, so far I have far stronger arguments than those he gave me about the name of God. Again, thanks everyone , and keep posting. - Class Avenger

  • larc
    larc

    Class Avenger,

    There are a couple of other facts you might point out to your friend. In the Old Testemant, the name YHWH, the tetragramiton, the name of God, Jehovah in our language, was so sacred that it was not to be said publicly, except possibly, for the high priests. So, the Jews did not publicize the name, as do Jehovah's Witnesses.

    In the New Testemant, the name, Jehovah does not appear in the text. Nonetheless, the Witness put it into their version of the bible in hundreds of scriptures.

  • DJ
    DJ

    to add to larc's comment about the name in the NT...it is important for you to know that your friend was probably taught that the name Jehaovah was only put in their NT when it was a quote from the OT. This is not true at all but he doesn't know any better. The name is inserted in plenty of verses that were not quotes but they just needed to put it there to distort the deity of Jesus.

    There are plenty of places to get the info with page#'s etc. Try doing a search.

  • larc
    larc

    Class Avenger,

    As far as quotes go, I would check in with a poster known as Beans. If he doesn't show up directly, you can check the member directory and e-mail him.

  • DJ
    DJ

    oh, ok I'm not losing my mind. There at 2 threads with the same title and date.....lol....

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