Lying.
You have to lie to yourself when you get up in the morning.
You have to lie to the brothers and sisters you are out with.
They have to lie to you.
You all have to lie to everyone you meet.
You have to keep lying to yourself.
What's Expected in Field Service?
by Cold Steel 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Cold Steel
Well, that's incredible. I have family who are members but I'm not sure how active they are. Preaching to a colleague would be did difficult and I imagine it would be awkward.
Just out of curiosity, if someone knows (or can ask an elder), where in the Bible does it say that ordinary members of the church are supposed to do missionary work?
I see that the apostles preached the gospel. And the seventy also. But not the saints as a whole. If they had, there would have been far more deaths (as martyrs) in the first century. I'd also like to hear where every baptized member is an ordained minister of the gospel.
If that's true, then any of you active members could baptize anyone you wished without permission. You could baptize your wife, kids, anyone.
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OUTLAW
I'd also like to hear where every baptized member is an ordained minister of the gospel.
If that's true, then any of you active members could baptize anyone you wished without permission. You could baptize your wife, kids, anyone.
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blondie
Following the model of first-century Christianity, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no clergy-laity division. All baptized members are ordained ministers and share in the preaching and teaching work. Witnesses are organized into congregations of about 100 members. Spiritually mature men in each congregation serve as “older men,” or elders. (Titus 1:5) They do so without being paid for their services.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/no-paid-clergy/
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Cold Steel
But where in the Bible does it state that all baptized members are ordained ministers? It's a concept I just don't find. Also, what of bishops, deacons, priests and seventy mentioned in the New Testament? These all appear to be offices within the church, yet we don't know a lot about them. Do these offices need ordination and, if so, who gets to ordain whom?
Elders seem to be an internal police force, as they evoke fear in some members.
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blondie
.Just reporting not supporting. I would check www.jw.org and do a search from time to before querying JWN.
How are Christian ministers ordained?
4 At their baptism, new disciples are ordained as ministers of Jehovah God. Who ordains them? In principle, the words recorded at 2 Corinthians 3:5 apply to them: “Our being adequately qualified [as ministers] issues from God.” They could wish for no greater honor than to be ordained by Jehovah God himself! After their baptism, they will continue to grow spiritually as ministers of the “good news” as long as they accept the leadings of God’s spirit and continue to apply his Word.—Matthew 24:14; Acts 9:31.
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2001049?q=ordained&p=par
8 When, though, does a person become a minister? In other words, when is he ordained? And who ordains him?
Ordination as a Minister—When?
9. When was Jesus ordained, and by whom?
9 As to when and by whom a person is ordained, consider the example of Jesus Christ. He did not have a certificate of ordination or a degree from some seminary to prove that he was a minister, and he was not ordained by any man. Why can we say, then, that he was a minister? Because Isaiah’s inspired words were fulfilled in him: “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news.” (Luke 4:17-19; Isaiah 61:1) Those words leave no doubt that Jesus was commissioned to tell forth good news. By whom? Since Jehovah’s spirit anointed him for the work, Jesus was clearly ordained by Jehovah God. When did this happen? Jehovah’s spirit actually came upon Jesus when he was baptized. (Luke 3:21, 22) Therefore, it was at his baptism that he was ordained.
10. By whom does a Christian minister become “adequately qualified”?
10 What of Jesus’ first-century followers? Their status as ministers also came from Jehovah. Paul said: “Our being adequately qualified issues from God, who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant.” (2 Corinthians 3:5, 6) How does Jehovah qualify his worshipers to be ministers? Consider the example of Timothy, whom Paul called “God’s minister in the good news about the Christ.”—1 Thessalonians 3:2.
11, 12. How did Timothy make progress toward becoming a minister?
11 The following words addressed to Timothy help us to understand how he became a minister: “You, however, continue in the things that you learned and were persuaded to believe, knowing from what persons you learned them and that from infancy you have known the holy writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in connection with Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 3:14, 15) The foundation of Timothy’s faith, which would move him to make a public declaration, was knowledge of the Scriptures. Was personal reading all that was needed for this? No. Timothy needed help to gain accurate knowledge and spiritual understanding of what he read. (Colossians 1:9) Thus Timothy was “persuaded to believe.” Since he had known the Scriptures “from infancy,” his first instructors must have been his mother and grandmother, his father evidently not being a believer.—2 Timothy 1:5.
12 However, more was involved in Timothy’s becoming a minister. For one thing, his faith was strengthened by association with Christians in nearby congregations. How do we know? Because when Paul first met Timothy, the young man was “well reported on by the brothers in Lystra and Iconium.” (Acts 16:2) Additionally, in those days certain brothers wrote letters to the congregations in order to strengthen them. And overseers visited them in order to build them up. Such provisions helped Christians like Timothy to progress spiritually.—Acts 15:22-32; 1 Peter 1:1.
13. When was Timothy ordained as a minister, and why would you say that his spiritual progress did not end there?
13 In view of Jesus’ command recorded at Matthew 28:19, 20, we can be sure that at some point Timothy’s faith moved him to imitate Jesus and be baptized. (Matthew 3:15-17; Hebrews 10:5-9) This was a symbol of Timothy’s whole-souled dedication to God. At his baptism Timothy became a minister. From then on, his life, his strength, and everything he had belonged to God. This was an integral part of his worship, “a sacred service.” However, Timothy did not then rest on his laurels. He continued to grow spiritually, becoming a mature Christian minister. This occurred because of Timothy’s close association with such mature Christians as Paul, his own personal study, and his zealous preaching activity.—1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 2:2; Hebrews 6:1.
14. Today, how does someone “rightly disposed for everlasting life” make progress toward being a minister?
14 Today, ordination for the Christian ministry is similar. One who is “rightly disposed for everlasting life” is helped to learn about God and his purposes by means of a Bible study. (Acts 13:48) The individual learns to apply Bible principles in his life and to pray meaningfully to God. (Psalm 1:1-3; Proverbs 2:1-9; 1 Thessalonians 5:17, 18) He associates with other believers and takes advantage of provisions and arrangements made by “the faithful and discreet slave.” (Matthew 24:45-47; Proverbs 13:20; Hebrews 10:23-25) Thus he makes progress in a structured process of education.
15. What happens when a person gets baptized? (See also footnote.)
15 Eventually, the Bible student, having developed a love of Jehovah God and a strong faith in the ransom sacrifice, wishes to dedicate himself completely to his heavenly Father. (John 14:1) He makes that dedication in personal prayer and then gets baptized as a public symbol of that private act. His baptism is his ordination ceremony because that is when he is recognized as a fully dedicated servant, a di·aʹko·nos, of God. He must remain separate from the world. (John 17:16; James 4:4) He has presented his whole self “a sacrifice living, holy, acceptable to God” without reserve or condition. (Romans 12:1)* He is God’s minister, imitating Christ.
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Cold Steel
Blondie » Just reporting not supporting. I would check www.jw.org and do a search from time to before querying JWN.
Yeah, I know...and your reporting is, as always, top notch. But jw.org always raises more questions than it answers...and it's frustrating. For example:
Since Jehovah’s spirit anointed him for the work, Jesus was clearly ordained by Jehovah God. When did this happen? Jehovah’s spirit actually came upon Jesus when he was baptized. (Luke 3:21, 22) Therefore, it was at his baptism that he was ordained.
This is a wacked out explanation by the WTBTS and whatever they attempt to explain turns into a series of non-seqiturs. How can they say Jesus was clearly ordained when Jehovah's spirit "anointed him for the work? How is that clear? When the Spirit of God came upon Saul at the school of the prophets (when he was pursuing David), was he ordained? Yet there's no one there to ask at jw.org. I guess we're just supposed to accept it. When Jesus told the Twelve, "...I have ordained you," he wouldn't have needed to if they had been baptized. There are also those other offices: bishops, seventy, apostles, deacons, priests, elders and so forth. If they each required ordination, then how would those clearly happen? There are no scriptures that answer this question.
The articles purport to answer these questions, but they really don't.
I'm afraid they wouldn't want me as a member, as these answers don't even make sense. When Jeremiah was told by the Lord: "Before thou wast born I knew thee, and before thou camest forth from the womb I called thee and ordained thee a prophet to the nations." (Jeremiah 1:5) Thus one can say he was clearly called and ordained before he was born.
Anyway, I do appreciate your materials. You apparently know where to look.
At his baptism Timothy became a minister. From then on, his life, his strength, and everything he had belonged to God.
It doesn't say anywhere that Timothy became a minister when he was baptized. It's all pap! They just spout these things off!
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blondie
Now you understand one of the reasons I left the WTS. They dance around their statement and decorate it with scriptures.
Many jws would believe that the phrase "governing body" appears in the NWT or any bible at Acts 15 because the put hat scripture after that phrase in their publications. They are careful not to put quotes around it because it is not a snippet from that area.
Blondie
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BluesBrother
I guess that we have to accept that the concept of ordination at baptism is from the WTS , not directly in scripture....
Chapter 8 of the current "in-house" instruction book "Organized to Do Jehovah's Will" says " When anyone becomes a follower of Jesus, that person preaches the good news as one of God's ministers"
"All who respond [to Jesus invitation to follow him] have a divine commission to preach the good news and make disciples"
The second question before Baptism ,answered audibly before all the gathered Assembly is "Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit directed organization"?
So that is that. You have signed up to preach and teach for as long as this world lasts...... At least they don't chase them to report 10 hours a month, minimum, anymore.....
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Vidiot
Cold Steel - "What's expected in field service?"
Not much, these days... :smirk: