by calamityjane 22 Replies latest jw friends
Shamus, just curious, are you a parent? I am seriously curious, & no sarcasm is intended.
IMHO, & the opinion of many other childcare professionals, if your parents won't talk too you, they don't talk to your kids, period. It's just too confusing & damaging too your kids, especially because they shun you over something as dumb as religion. There is very little difference between jw's & taliban, just a matter of degree if anything.
Av I agree that if the there is that much conflict between the parents and grandparents then the child shouldn't be put in the middle. Except here we have a child who is doing the asking.
At 13 I don't think you can or should brush her off. When they are younger it is a lot easier for it to be a non-issue. This girl will want an explanation and deserves it. She is going into the stage of life of discovering who she is with all those questions of self-exploration. The grand-parents are a root and she will want some answers. So the question is how to give her some answers and still protect her.
My girls were raised in it until they were 13 and 9. They went to a few meetings with their father and went to visit their grandmother. They had full access to information and made their own choices about not seeing either their father or their grand-mother and not going to meetings.
I was thinking after my previous post some other things the child needs to know.
If you have a good relationship with your daughter really sit down and discuss these things. Do not try to destroy her love for the grandparents. That is counter-productive and could back-fire badly. They are your parents and you might have some good feelings about them as parents. If you do let her know that and that you miss them but the refuse to have a relationship based on who you are. You don't want that for her. You don't want them to use her love for them as a tool to manipulate her into this cult.
If you want a simple but clear example of some things that JWs do re mind control take a look at my webpage and the article on Mind control and JWs (click on my name above)
PS: She could try letter -writing to them if she has things to say as long as she knows you will wnat to make sure they don't try to break the rules
Uh- no, I'm not a parent. However, I was a kid once, and went through my parents messy divorce, and know what it's all about...
Also, I work with developmentally challenged adults... the key is not to treat people as idiots, even if they are kids. It's not a nice thing to do; if they can be explained something and can understand it, then they should know the truth - end of story.
Ever tell a kid to NOT eat too much candy, and that's it? Well, DUH, why not? Kids always question, and the more that you explain things to them, the better off they'll be.
Your daughter will be more and more aware of the Watchtower crap as she gets older.
You might consider, as you mentioned, letting her spend time with her grandparents, but only with you around. It will be tough, but you dealing with that is better than her being alone with them.
Perhaps they will relax and realize how special it is to spend time with your daughter, and will not jeoporize it in the future.
In my family my mother and ex believe it is their God-given responsibility to break any agreements they make if it means preaching to the kids.
I wouldn't take any bets on them keeping a promise to obey the do not preach rule over having a somewhat normal relationship with a child (do they even know what a normal relationship is?)
When I was a JW I didn't know how to have a conversation that didn't include WT propaganda. That was something I had to learn after I left
Also, I work with developmentally challenged adults... the key is not to treat people as idiots, even if they are kids. It's not a nice thing to do; if they can be explained something and can understand it, then they should know the truth - end of story.
Shamus, VERY COOL!!! I did that for years, & am working w/ emotionally disturbed, abused kids right now. My bro is also autistic.Your statement is very true, & not everyone in your field realizes that.
People may think my opinion is harsh on this matter. And if you do decide to let her hang out, please do so w/ maximum supervision. HAving been on the recieving end, I am grateful to my mom, however, My granddad was a crook & also violent, though everybody in his cong. thought he was the best guy ever. This may not be the same in your case. I still feel it is'nt a good idea, see garybuss' post above, why risk it? It was very hard, & I know it killed my mom to do it, but I see this as one of her best parenting decisions ever.
I was 12 when I was baptized, how old were you? do NOT ever underestimate the danger involved in the JW cult and those who are loyal to it over their own flesh and blood. First of all, let your daughter know that it is not you who is keeping them away---it is their choice to continue with a corrupt religion rather than be a united family. I did not have any grandparents growing up and I turned out just fine. The only people who have any 'rights' to your children are you and your spouse(aka: parents)- don't let this mini-van obsessed society brainwash you into thinking any differently! You do what is BEST for your children, sometimes that means they go without something they might want--but is not for their best.
Sit down and talk with your daughter---put the blame where it belongs---you have no reason to feel guilty about denying the JW grandparents access to your children--it is the grandparents' fault for choosing the religion over family.
Ravyn
((((((((calamityjane))))))))))))))
Tough one! I know what you're going through - my son was very close to my parents and trying to break those ties was more painful to him than anyone. So I let my parents see him - but I told him the truth about the religion - what grandma and grandpa would say and why. I told him they would say those things not to be mean, but because they really believed it and they loved him - but that they were mislead. I showed him the proof (false prophecies, twisted doctrine, etc) - and then I made a deal with him that he occassionally come with me to my new church so he could see other religions also.
When he came home from grandma & grandpa's we had a little "decompression" time - I'd ask him how it went - and I'd ask him point blank questions about what they talked about. I tried not to put him ont he defensive by saying they were bad - but by explaining that they were really good people who were just mislead and how we hope that some day they can be free from that mind control.
It takes A LOT of talking with your kids to undo anything they may have said - and there are times when I was so angry because my parents would say some stupid thing like "you'll die at Armageddon if you don't go to meetings". But in the end - my son realized the truth about it all. My dad passed away a little over a year ago, my son still goes to see my mom almost every week. But he's 17 now and he tells mer on his own that he doesn't want to go to meetings, doesn't want to study, and will never be a 'dub. My mom loves him and accepts that because she wants a relationship with him.
The truth is - it could go either way - it's a tough call but you will have to go with your what your heart tells you to do - you know your daughter the best. Can you undo whatever your parents say by a "decompression time"? Or is she easily swayed?
cj & xjw_b12:
I go through this issue with my own kids every so often. Fortunately, my parents haven't turned up the shunning to MAX yet. However, they will not visit us in our home, even though they know that they are welcome anytime and have an open invitation. So, when my children want to see their only living grandparents, I take them for a visit. It is a four-hour round trip drive. We usually spend an afternoon and go home after dinner.
If my parents ever said that I was not welcome in their home, I certainly would NOT go to the trouble of driving all that way so they could spend time with my children. They know it too. They also know that if they want the visits to continue, they will not do any subtle or overt "witnessing" to my children. They know that they are welcome to provide me with literature, and that it will be me (not them) who decides what my children may or may not read.
My suggestion: Your daughter obviously loves her grandparents and wants to have a relationship with them. It might be difficult for you both to display the kind of love that "never fails", but your daughter will appreciate it if you take the first step and call up the grandparents and say "Your grandchildren are asking if they can see you, and we would like to bring them for a brief friendly visit." (Or something like that.) It's non-confrontational. It also puts the onus on the grandparents to either accept or reject this gesture. If they accept it, great.... a brief friendly visit can take place. You could even take Grandma & Grandpa out for supper, where they can be seen eating with "apostates". If they say no, then have them explain to the children why not. If they put conditions on the visit (the children can come, but you and hubby aren't welcome) have them explain that to the children as well. How are the children going to feel to have their parents slammed as being "wicked" or "unrighteous" or "apostates"?? Make sure it comes directly from the grandparents how it is that you are "unworthy" of their company.
Kids aren't dumb. You two are wonderful, loving parents, great providers, and you do fun stuff with your kids. You aren't "bad people" the way grandma is going to try to tell them, and your daughter is smart enough to recognize that. Most kids are super protective of their parents - even when the parents are horrible - they are still Mom & Dad - and will not appreciate having anyone (even Grandma) bashing them behind their backs.
Hoping everything works out well.....
Love, Scully
I would have to join the others here who advised you "not only no, but HELL NO."
Your mother is a clear and present danger to your dauther's emotional make up. You've made that clear - and to yours as well.
Would you let her try heroin?
Go on a train trip by herself across country?
Hang out with known criminals?
Or any other of a hundred other dangerous things? You know I miss my grandfather too. He died when I was 18, and the first thing I want to do after this life is find him and spend lots of time in his presence. But, you know what?, no matter how many times I ask, no matter how many tears I may shed, no matter the urgency of my prayers, my Father will not resurrect my grandfather for me for just an hour. He has certain rules about when resurrection will occur and he won't change them for me. And also I'm stretching this analogy to the snapping point, it's the same with your daugher. Why run the risk of putting her in harm's way?
francois
