by minimus 29 Replies latest jw friends
if you debate doctrine or teachings like love you will get nowhere. they are programmed to not hear that or have trite quotes to throw at you
The only way is to erode their belief that the GB is what it says it is. Prove that the GB is not inspired and they have nothing to fight with
You know, all this discussion focus on arguing with them conceptually doesn't it? What about bringing real life situations into play? Even if you are successful in making the point, how far have you gotten if you've only changed the beliefs? You're basically operating on the same level as you were before. I'm not saying not to talk about the beliefs and ideas, but rather putting it together with things that happen in life. Of course this takes more work, but maybe it just goes to show you there's no magic bullet that will change their minds.
Once again minimus, GREAT question .............
Well, where to start.
1) Jesus said "no one knows the day nor the hour", therefore the Watchtower NEVER should of even made a suggestion as to the end of this system of things. Instead they went overboard on dates (1914, 1925, 1931,1935,1975,2000 etc etc etc etc)
2) If the governing body receives their direction (instructions from Jehovah), why has the governing body resigned on several occasions (1979,2001)
3) When you enter a project in life, especially religion, would you not want to consider all the material and make a decision on your own (1879-2003), instead they brush off (1879-1980) as misinterpeted, or overzealous people of that time. Thus brings up the question, if the material from 1980 and back is wrong (or not necessary), then 25 years from now, will we be saying the same about information studying today?
4) How can the president of the organization (for the first time) not be of the annoited class?
5) Why would the Watchtower/Awake magazines that are printed, be changed when reprinted into bound volumes ?
6) Telling people, to shun family who are unbelievers, do not further your education because the end is near (during the 1970's big time, were they right ? NO !), suggesting (hundreds of times) that it is unlikely we will see the 21st century, (were they right ? NO !)are just pathetic.
7) Why have all the leaders (especially governing body members) all white people (til know)and mostly american ? Does Jehovah only like the USA ?
8) If Russel and Rutherford are of the annoited class (they said they were), why would we not read their material today ? and believe it ?
9) Bring up your children, believing that all the rest of the kids in the world will die at Armaggeddon is really pathetic ? What is a 8 year old suppose to do, leave home and runaway with the JW's ?
10) Why was the Watchtower associated with the UN , after referrring to them as Babylon the Great for decades ?
11) Why does the Watchtower profit $1,000,000,000.00 (conservatively) a year, when they are a non-profit organization ?
12) Excessive spending on buildings, where to start on this ???? (headquarters, halls,assembly halls, printing presses), just these alone we are talking billions and billions of dollars, but they are non-profit !
13) Changing doctrine to fit the times, are we to believe that Jehovah cannot make up his mind ? (blood, smoking, sex, 1914, who not to talk to, etc etc etc.)
14) After 125 years women are still doormats, cannot give a talk, prayer, lead in the congregation,do accounts, literature, oh but cleaning is allowed. So if a woman is of the annoited, wouldn't she have more say then an elder or ministeral servant ? the answer is yes, but she doesn't, wouldn't it be a thrill of a lifetime to hear a memeber of the annoited class speak at the hall, YES, but not if the annoited member is a woman.
15) Why would any member of the Jehovah's Witnesses have a job, or house or car ??? Come on the end is near, should you not spend all of the little time remaining in the field service ??? And this question I LOVE THROWING AT THE JW'S ............ God looked after Job and provided for him during time of humilation, don't you think Jehovah will look after YOU ??? Where is your faith ???
16) Why are there so many divisions and levels in the organization ??? are not all people the same and equal ??? How many heavenly and earthly classes do you need ??? and more to come GUARANTEED.
17) Jesus said only Jehovah knows the heart, it is not for anyone else to JUDGE ??? but the JW's sure like to Judge and gossip don't they ???
18) Regardless what the JW's say, the organization started in 1879 (approx.) and the name Jehovah's Witnesses came into effect in the 1930's. So what about 4000 B.C.E til 1878 A.D.??? what no records ??? NOTHING ??? So in 1879, Jehovah and Jesus were sitting around in heaven and decided Okay, lets try something new ???
19) and my last question, this is directed at all people of all religions ................ What is this fascination in the world with "What is going to happen to me when I die ???" , Religions have thrived on this, did we not learn anything from the Egyptians, 2000 years later we dig up the tombs and discuss what they believed and how they prepared for their afterlife. And 2000 years from now archologists will dig up our bodies. Let me save you all the trouble, you will find the truth the day after you die, worrying about it now will not help your life, enjoy your time on earth, and help your fellow man as much as you can, and what happens after, worry about it after you die !
It's late and I'm going to bed.
Run Don't Walk: great follow-up, I enjoyed reading your post.
Much food for thought, and great questions, some of which I have read before, but it's always great to see them again. One never knows who may be reading this site for the first time.
Great post RDW, thanks!
"Millions now living MAY never die" instead of WILL never die? I rest my case. They lie.
Nit-picking over doctrine doesn't work and wouldn't have worked with me either.
"Why has the governing body resigned on several occasions(1979,2001)?" Run don't walk.....Coiuld you please explain that one??? btw, that was excellent!
Lady Lee, too true. Also wasted subjects are the Trinity and what happens after we die. Those types of things are not testable. On the other hand, the "fruit of the spirit" is. Are all JW's better than their "worldly neighbours"? ...and I am not talking about the axe murderer on the front page of the paper. I am talking about the people next door.
Which brings me to Introspection's example, which I use all the time. Whenever my honey goes off on a "this old world" rant, I say, "Like, Joe and Sally next door? They are hopelessly evil and slated for destruction? Give me a break." On occassion my honey has admitted that people like that do not fit the "evil" mold. But, you know, the people in the rest of the world. The ones we see on the front page of the paper. Those People.
Now that I see this in print, I see how bigoted this is. There have been several nations that tried the ultimate solution to cleanse themselves of "Those People". The devastation on the country and it's collective conscience...Ever had a German from that generation try and apologize and explain why they did not intervene? Jesus Christ treated everybody with respect and dignity. He even had a soft spot for sinners. Whatever the JW's are now, they are no longer Christ's followers.
I can not solve thisproblem, which wrote in Live Forever book:" There cannot be two sets of truth when one does not agree with the other. One or the other is true, but not both. Sincerely believing something, and practicing that belief, will not make it right if it really is wrong." (pe book Chapter 3, par.19) AND the Flip-Flop Truths in Watchtower beliefs
jwsons
Great post RDW!!! Good info that I hope to use...
jwsons, you are right. Either something is true or it isn't.
