The "world gets worse and worse" fallacy

metatron

Witnesses commonly believe that the "world just gets worse and worse". This always puzzled me because:

1) if everything is worse, how can the world even exist at present - and

2) if everything was better years ago, that means Christendom was successful in keeping people moral

As to entertainment, it isn't clear to me that things are really worse. A case in point from the 19th century

www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_394.html

if that doesn't work, do a web search for "le petomane"

metatron ( and he was very well paid!)

little witch

Very good point Metatron

The world doesn't seen so gawdawful to me!

I rather enjoy life, ups, downs, and tend to see things as getting better.

I am not afraid of the world, some things are worth fighting for. Especially human rights. The UN is a good thing, by and large, yes I think the West has a better quality of life for all,

other religions don't intimidate me, unless they are promoting a ''pecking order'', in which I beg to differ, and will become vicious if provoked.

And will point out quite readilly, that it is the epitome of stupidity to take advantage of a ''god'' given freedom to develop a dogma that thus limits the same freedoms that allowed you to flourish.

(you meaning off-shoot religions)

There was an interview on the radio with (I think) Gerald Kaufman whi is a British MP. He said that where he grew up in London he would often see people fighting in the street and it was generally more 'lawless'

I think societies tollerance and threshold of acceptable behavior has changes which is a good thing. Of course, bad things happen but not generally as much although they are reported more. If anything happens out of the ordinary then it's reported across the world several times in a day and this can lead people to imagine that things are worse.

greven

A quote comes to mind:

If you said to a bunch of average people two hundred years ago "Would you be happy in a world where medical care is widely available, houses are clean, the world's music and sights and foods can be brought into your home at small cost, travelling even 100 miles is easy, childbirth is generally not fatal to mother or child, you don't have to die of dental abcesses and you don't have to do what the squire tells you" they'd think you were talking about the New Jerusalem and say 'yes'.

-- (Terry Pratchett, alt.fan.pratchett)

Greven

Gopher

If everyone were evil, corrupt, and rotten to the core (outside the "spiritual paradise" of course, LOL), human society as we know it wouldn't function.

By and large people are helpful and kind, and are just trying to get along with their day-to-day living. If people are a little more cool and less neighborly these days, it is due to technology: specifically cars and television.

But would anyone who espouses the "people are worse than they ever were" theory want to give up their cars and their TV? Likely not.

MrsQ

This one kills me. I always wondered about it...I mean, especially as a woman--there is seriously no better time to be alive. If I'd been born even 150 years ago, chances are I'd have died young, my children might not have made it to adulthood, chances of me being able to read or write would be nil, unless I was born into a wealthy family. Make certain I would not have been able to vote, work, or even go outside without being covered from my ankles to my wrists. How is that better? Maybe better if you are some patriarchal asshole who thinks women's suffrage was the beginning of the downfall of civilization.

Medicine, education, and even daily living is so much better now--all OVER the world. Some places are much better off than others, of course, but even 'third world' countries are improving steadily.

As far as immorality goes, well--anyone who's done any reading or research on the Greek and Roman empires can vouch for the depravity of their societies.

drwtsn32

I have asked my JW mom before if she would rather live 100 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000 years ago, etc. She reluctantly agreed that this is a good time to live. So much for the "the world is worse now than ever before" theory.

rocketman

Alan F wrote a good essay about this, which can be accessed off Randy Waters' site. Some stuff I recall, or have read elsewhere:

Human life span has increased dramatically in the past 100 years, as many childhood diseases have been either wiped out or successfully treated and prevented.

Pollution is on the decrease, as cars become cleaner burning, lead has been removed from gasoline, and scrubbers have been installed on factory smoke stacks. Also, cleaner fuel alternatives such as wind power and fuel cells and hybrid electric cars are nowunder development.

Man has studied damage to the ozone layer and has removed products containing ozone damaging chemicals, such as A/C refrigerant.

Medical treatments make many sugeries much less painful or unecessary. Advances continue to be made, and the sequencing of the human genome holds out prospects for still better treatments in the future.

Minorities and women have gained rights all over the world, something Mrs Q just commented on.

Sure, there's still some bad stuff going on. Crime is still a big problem. Terrorism is very scary (but so was the Cold War). But overall, I'd much rather be alive now than in Pastor Russell's time.

gumby

2) if everything was better years ago, that means Christendom was successful in keeping people moral

Excellent point!

People in general agree that many things have went downhill as far as open morals go, and children being more defiant and much less respectful to their parents.People agree that 40-50 years ago for the most part you were married before sex also.

So.......who taught these values back then and gave us the "leave it to beaver" type families? Christendom.......was a large part of it, yet the society says the blood of them will be up to the horses bridles at armaggedon.No credit is ever given to them for them sharing in keeping family values.

Greven.....you made an intresting observation. Times indeed have changed for the worse in some area's.........but GREATLY improved in so many others.

Gumby