Dark Night of the Soul?

by Ravyn 23 Replies latest watchtower medical

LittleToe

Can we just discuss the article on it's own merits, without having to do an indepth bio on anyone and everyone who ever came in contact with it???
Sheesh, so very exJW
LOLOL
JamesThomas

Thank you Ross, for PMing and directing me to this thread. It seems Ravyn played a bit of a pun by placing this under "medical". Would be nice to have her back. I can not say anything about Ledgerwood as I know not of him, but the article is excellent. It seems clear he speaks from experience and not just hearsay. The Dark Night can last for years. It's like being a fish out of water. It is a death of all that is false in us, all that we believe ourselves to be. Sometimes things can get pretty intense. It's easier for some than others. I don't feel inclined to share my experiences. However, I am not one of the easy ones. The only thing in the article I have disagreement with is his statement near the end: "You have become a son or daughter of higher consciousness". The ego loves to hear this! This is exactly what the ego wants; and why it holds on for dear life; and why the Night can drag on and on. We do not "become" anything. The "me", the ego, is seen as totally and completely erroneous. There is no one left to "become" anything. It is seen unquestionably and undeniably that there is only One pristine and boundless Conscious-awareness from which all arises and falls back into....and you are That. All is That. There is no individual "me" left, it was all just a facade (There may be enough personal identity just to live practically, like when someone calls your name you know enough to turn your head in acknowledgment). No one, no person is ever spiritually enlightened to Truth. because what is seen is the person, the individual entity, never really existed. There is just I AM (for lack of a better phrase); and I Am, is not a person or thing. It includes everything, yet is no thing. Any person who walks around telling you they are awake or enlightened is probably in an egotistical coma, or wants your money. Then again, I could be totally nuts. One has to discover for oneself. That said, this was a good article and I hope those interested in awakening, or just living life as it was truly meant to be, print it out and read it a few times. j
JamesThomas

I would like to add that there is a scripture about how the devil will tell you a thousand truths to get you to believe one lie. Often times i find amazing allegorical wisdom in scripture....well, not often, but periodically. It's as if the above article was 99% right on, and then at the end it was ego bate, or support. After saying how the ego was the problem, it slyly insinuated to the ego that it can have what it wants. That it can be enlightened and become a son or daughter of God, or "higher Consciousness". Perhaps I'm reading more into this than was there, but I see similar all the time...well, not all the time, but sometimes. The ego can be a tricky little bastard. It's wants it all. But, God is too jealous and will not share. It's all God anyway. The ego was never really there. 99% of most everything written "spiritual", is all about the ego evolving to a spiritual level. It's all BS. True enlightenment is via total surrender...and especially surrender of the ego that desires enlightenment. j
Satanus

JT
Yes, it's a pity that ravyn left. If anyone wants to contact her, pm me, as i have the numbers that she posted way back when. I haven't actually tried to contact her, so i only assume that it's good.
SS
SixofNine

Any person who walks around telling you they are awake or enlightened is probably in an egotistical coma, or wants your money.

or perhaps trying to get laid?
LT, I don't know a delicate way to approach this, but I've been thinking about it all day from the other thread; how can a person identify with Calvanism, and have any hope of achieving a healthy ego state? Seems like polar opposites to me. Sorry for the bluntness, but I want to know how you see this.
asleif_dufansdottir

Loreena McKennitt (who is wonderful) did a song of this title.
You can hear a clip of the song here:
http://www.quinlanroad.com/sounds.html
Here are the words:
THE DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL (6:44)
Music by Loreena McKennitt. Words by St. John of the Cross and arranged and adapted by Loreena McKennitt
Upon a darkened night
the flame of love was burning in my breast
And by a lantern bright
I fled my house while all in quiet rest
Shrouded by the night
And by the secret stair I quickly fled
The veil concealed my eyes
while all within lay quiet as the dead
CHORUS
Oh night thou was my guide
of night more loving than the rising sun
Oh night that joined the lover
to the beloved one
transforming each of them into the other
Upon that misty night
in secrecy, beyond such mortal sight
Without a guide or light
than that which burned so deeply in my heart
That fire t'was led me on
and shone more bright than of the midday sun
To where he waited still
it was a place where no one else could come

CHORUS
Within my pounding heart
which kept itself entirely for him
He fell into his sleep
beneath the cedars all my love I gave
From o'er the fortress walls
the wind would his hair against his brow
And with its smoothest hand
caressed my every sense it would allow
CHORUS
I lost myself to him
and laid my face upon my lover's breast
And care and grief grew dim
as in the morning's mist became the light
There they dimmed amongst the lilies fair
there they dimmed amongst the lilies fair
there they dimmed amongst the lilies fair
LittleToe

James:
It seems Ravyn played a bit of a pun by placing this under "medical". Would be nice to have her back.

Agreed, on both counts.
The only thing in the article I have disagreement with is his statement near the end: "You have become a son or daughter of higher consciousness".
That was the way I experienced it.
The resulting "connection" acted in a very personal and all engulfing manner.
especially surrender of the ego that desires enlightenment.
Now this is exactly the kind of new snippet that I was looking for.
I take it that this is not dichotomous with continuing to seek knowledege? Or is it?
I've not commented on anything else that you posted as I have nothing to add
SIx:
I don't know a delicate way to approach this... Sorry for the bluntness, but I want to know how you see this.
Just spit it out, I rarely take offense, and you're not usually so tactful...
...Oh, you did spit it out!
Does that mean you don't love me anymore?
...I've been thinking about it all day...
Awww, bless, you wuz finking 'bout me
You DO still love me!
That really warms my heart... truly
...how can a person identify with Calvanism, and have any hope of achieving a healthy ego state?
Ok, I've been making light, but more seriously:
First things first, what is a "healthy ego state", especially when you consider the context of this thread which is about "submitting" the ego?
Whilst you more than likely know them, I'll reiterate a few things, for clarity.
Calvinism is a sub-section of Christianity, wherein there were five main points that differed from other "brands", but in all the other points they agreed; hence the difference in doctrine, whilst having a major impact on the way people think, was less than 10% of the list. Whilst Calvinism is a subset of Christendom, it is still a rather major slice of the pie.
I'll outline the five points, and attempt to explain how I see them interacting with my own "current" understanding (which, if I'm to truly to nail my colours to the mast is nearer "Christian Mysticism", but you never heard that publicly, k? ).
I've started with a link, below, to the "party line", but I'll try to avoid "Christian" language.
TULIP
Total depravity
We are full of "ego", which so affects our worldview that it insidiously affects all we think, say and do.
Unconditional Election
There are no conditions to the "connected" state, beyond "submitting the ego".
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with "works" and being a good person, in advance of that "connection".
Limited AtonementThe "Freewill" aspect of the opposing (Arminian) viewpoint is incredibly tempting, humanistically, but is inherently "egocentric".
Just looking at this from a purely statistical perspective - some become "connected", whilst some don't (or if you'd rather consider that all are "connected", anyway, then some become aware of their "conection", and some don't).
I'm not going to argue the fairness of that, but it seems to be a fact, as observed by my limited awareness.
Irresistable GraceShe is, isn't she
On this score I can only speak experientially.
When I had my epiphany it was like being on a guided path where, for just one example, I prayed in a manner that was totally unusual for me. I was so bowled over by the whole experience that I had little or no ability to resist it.
Now you might argue that I could have resisted it earlier on, but at the point that I became aware of the process, I was slipping down the slope into it. The result was overwhelming, and caused me to examine all my previously held convictions (including many that mainstream Christianity hold sacrosanct). The ensuing few months were like spiraling in a maelstrom, with no focus (my dark night??) and resulting in my deciding to leave the JW's. I even wrote poetry about it, of which "Maestrom of Emotion" was but one.
Perseverance of the Saints
Once you're "connected", you're "connected". The "connection" may seem to drow dim at times, though on retrospect it was always there, but our awareness of it became cloudy through distraction.
I have experienced that latter "darkness of spirit", and it's no fun, but is incredibly strengthening in its end result.
Some relate this to a "once saved, always saved" mentality, which has so often been misused by profiteers.
And thus I bid you my thoughts and observations, in their current state of evolution.
I hope you'll forgive their rawness, as it's the first time I've put them in print.
I could (but wont) quite easily throw a heap of bible texts at it, to show that this is not a new phenomena, but can be seen thoughout history in the subjective experience of a bunch of Israeli goatherds, boatbuilders, tentmakers, etc., etc.
Asleif:
Nice song. I think I heard that before, someplace, but don't recall when / where.
Sunnygal41

I skated past this thread a few times myself............too busy dealing with the experience of the subject to post much................however, I have, at this particular point in my life, undergone yet another "dark night" and am beginning to wonder if the whole subject is dealt with by our soul/spirit/life in layers........................when I was in my early twenties, I went through a period in my life that totally mirrored all the most excruciating levels of this article............this is my, I would take an educated guess...........my third layer of this process..............and, interestingly, the "subject" or "area of life being threatened" has differed...............very very interesting, and I personally feel a subject that will require my intense immersion to satisfy my "interest" in it.
Terri
Sunnygal41

Many contemplatives and fans of meditation will recognize the first kind of "night" by its barrenness, confusion, emptiness, and lack of joy or imagery. That, however, is the lesser night; those who work through it and make peace with it encounter a spiritual night far more terrible. The first weans one from dependence on pleasant experiences, inner or outer, the second from the very sense of self. The first is the desert, the second Gethsemane. Both are signs, not of sin, but of advancement.

OMG!! Well, lol, I posted without reading thru the entire thread, but, once again, my "gut", "intuition" was right on point!
Terri
JamesThomas

I take it that this is not dichotomous with continuing to seek knowledege? Or is it?
Who is seeking knowledge? Certainly not the Truth of our Being, for It is whole and complete. A moment must come when there is a complete STOP. No seeking. No reaching. No pushing away. For what we truly are, never moves. As long as there is seeking and hunger for knowledge, there is an identity with the mind and surrender is incomplete. There is no need to judge or fight this tendency.....for that again is reinforcing false identity. Just see it. It's all about seeing, and the magic happens on it's own. Watch closely now, as the mind does non-reaching, and non-seeking. A full STOP, is to stop stopping too. This all gets pretty subtle as we investigate deeper within.
That was the way I experienced it.
The resulting "connection" acted in a very personal and all engulfing manner.
Are you saying that the "son or daughter" description was similar to your own? When there was "connection" in an "all engulfing manner", was there really anybody there, other than Truth? Often times it is the minds reconstruction of past events which adds the "me" again. In the actual moment -- there is no other. I'm not saying you are wrong Ross. It is not my place to question peoples experiences that way. Can there be a connection so full that the "son" or "daughter" dissolves completely? j

Dark Night of the Soul?

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