1 John 5:13-20 Jesus is the true God? (page 2)

Wonderment

"As far as the grammatical construction of the sentence is concerned [in 1 John 5:20] the pronoun [houtos] may refer either to ‘Him that is true’ or to ‘Jesus Christ.’ The most natural reference however is to the subject not locally nearest but dominant in the mind of the apostle (com. c. ii. 22; 2 John 7; Acts iv.11; vii.19) This is obviously ‘He that is true’ further described by the addition of ‘His Son.’
Thus the pronoun gathers up the revelation indicated in the words which precede (comp. John i. 2 note): This Being--this One who is true, who is revealed through and in His Son, with whom we are united by His Son--is the true God and life eternal. In other words, the revelation of God as Father in Christ (comp. ii. 22f.) satisfies, and can alone satisfy, the need of man. To know God as Father is eternal life (John xvii. 3) and so Christ has revealed Him (c. i. 2)." (The Epistles of St. John, B. F. Westcott)

Wonderment

Summer Angel: "Once you move away from the ridiculous knotts the WT ties you in you will be struck by the simplicity of the true gospel if you want to go down that path."

"Ridiculous knotts" ?

Like ‘the overlapping of generations’; ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ being Russell, and then later not; the timing application of the separation of the sheep and the goats, the length of a ‘generation’, the Scriptures as we have them are inspired, but have been tampered with, the changing policies of shunning practices, 1914 being the beginning of the end, and so on.

Christendomś "ridiculous knots": the trinity; the immortality of the soul; hell fire; John 1:1, which scholars say should not to be understood the way most religious people do, but still insisting that it has to be rendered ‘the Word was God’; scholar´s admitting that 1 Timothy 3:16 and 1 John 5:7 are interpolations, but somehow still showing up in Bibles (either in the main text or in their footnotes, etc.

Take your pick!

tor1500

Hi All,

Most folks like the King James Version of the Bible, that way they can prove Jesus is God...One of the most debated scriptures is John 1:1...The Word was with God and the word is a god....small god...NYT, now let's look at KJV:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God....these scriptures really confuse folks...The same was in the beginning with God.All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.1John 5:Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God....did God have to Born himself...1John 5:5: Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? 1John 5:9-10-If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

So, Is Jesus God or the Son of God ? You read it for yourself...Ask yourself...Can God die ? Would you give up your child for anybody...NO, you wouldn't...you wouldn't give up a ham sandwich at 11 o'clock at night...that's why people don't want to believe in Jesus, because most humans are selfish...maybe just maybe God did give his son for us...when a person looses their child don't you think God knows what that is like...he watched his son be tortured for nothing but for us...God watched his son...so when folks say, God, where were you when they killed my child...God can identify and say same place I was when they killed mine...but I had to let it happen to save you...

Why are we fighting about God being Jesus or not...Jesus gave his life for us...end of story...God said whoever believe in my son....God can take care of himself...he wants us to worship someone who died for us...now whether this is true or not..who knows...

The words are sacrifice...& unselfishness....Words that humans find it hard to live by....so it's easier to fight about if there is a Trinity or not...The bible is a simple book but the hard part is to do it...

Tor

punkofnice

The Jobos just want to be different to other looney cults is all it is.

Vandy - For God so loved the world that he sent His top angel

Or if you're a Londoner

Fah Gawd so larved the wowd vat he sent 'is diamond geezer.

EverApostate

Jesus didn't write a single word in the Bible. Did he ? No historical evidence of his existence and his supposed miracles. Are there any ? Nothing that he promised happened so far. Then why to "Search for a black cat in a dark room where there is no cat at all"

SummerAngel

This isn't a debate about the logic of belief, this post starts with the assumption of that, it is about accuracy of translation something desperately lacking in WTS publications. Tor_ thank you for backing up my point.

When I talk about spiritual knots you need to differentiate between those things we struggle to rationalize or seem beyond logic like trinity, miracles, etc that's why it's called faith not science, and the WT take on events. The altering of what is written, the constant interpretations, rehash,etc of Revelation,the constant number games, endless end time speculation.

You forget I'm in the usual position of having spent considerable time in both camps. Most JWs and ex JWs frankly talk outta their a@*e when they talk about Christian beliefs because they only know the jaded WT view. I've sat in many services a cross 27 yrs and at no time has there been any whisper of 1914, stupid illogical calculations or miserable attempts to a portion Revelation to modern-day governments. I sat through this nonsense for the first 22 years of my life.

Old Navy

1 John 5:13-20 Jesus is the true God?

Is the question asking whether he is the Father and the Son? Or that the Son is perhaps really the Father?

There are many things that we do not yet know about the Heavenly Family but one day we shall. In the meantime we wonder about the several hypotheses which have been advanced regarding the Nature of God.

A Father who has a Son like Himself sounds good to me.

maccauk

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Yes Jesus is God. He is the visible manifestation of God in the flesh in a mans body

1 John 5:13-20 Jesus is the true God?

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