Town says ban on Jehovah's Witness canvassing reasonable (page 3)

Satanus

Why do religions need to proselytise in order to 'practice their religion, anyway? Eric hoffer, in 'the true believer' says the following:

Intensity of conviction is not the main factor which impels a movement to spread its faith to the four corners of the earth: "religions of great intensity often confine themselves to contemning, destroying, or at best pitying what is not themselves." 40 Nor is the impulse to proselitize an expression of an overabundance of power, which, as Bacon has it "is like a great flood, that is sure to overflow."41 The missionary zeal seems rather the expression of some deep misgiving, some pressing feeling of insufficiency at the center. Proselytizing is more a passionate search for something not yet found than a desire to bestow upon the world something we already have. It is a search for a final and irrefutable demonstration that our absolute truth is indeed the one and only truth. The proselytizing fanatic strengthens his own faith by converting others. The creed whos legitimacy is the most easily challenged is likely to develop the strongest proselytizing impulse. It is doubtful whether a movement which does not profess some preposterous and patently irrational dogma can be posessed of that zealous drive which "must either win men or destroy the world." It is also plausible that those movements with the greatest inner contradiction between profession and practice - that is to say with a strongest feeling of guilt - are likely to be the most fervent in imposing their faith on others. The more unworkable communism proves in Russia, and the more its leaders are compelled to compromise and adulterate the original creed, the more brazen and arrogant will be their attack on a non-believing world.

pg 110

The passion for proselytizing and passion for world dominion are both perhaps symptoms of some serious deficiency at the center.

pg 111

The point of the above quiote is that door to door isn't so much a practice of their religion, as a demonstration of the failure of jws to practice their religion perfectly. Winning arguements, winning converts, or attracting persecution temporarily diminishes their own sense of failure. There are many religions that happily practice privately, indeed some, secretly.

It's the right of citizens to get together and protect themselves from the poisonous venom of malcontented groups. People should have the freedom to enjoy silence on their own properties, if that is what they desire. Protecting that right doesn't interfere w anothers religious practice on his/her own property.

SS

Scully

Here are some comments from the "Sound Off" section of the Canada.com website regarding the Blainville situation:

Name: Paul Banat
E-mail: [edited]
Occupation:
Location: Montreal
Jehovah's Witnesses have to understand that not all people like to be put in those "religious discussion situations.” The problem with Jehovah's Witnesses is they do not take no for an answer. They want you to read their brochures and listen to their stories. So I say this, if permits are issued there should be a number associated with that Jehovah's Witness and a phone number to complain to if that Jehovah's Witness does not take "No Thank You!" for an answer. Then that Jehovah's Witness license should be revoked.

Name: Adam
Occupation: Army
Location: Kingston
Is it freedom of expression, or attempted conversion we are talking about? To me, freedom of expression would cover advertising to a broad target audience, not harassing people at their doors trying to tell them that their religion is wrong and that the JWs are right. To use my family as an example: 1)We belong to an established religion that we rarely practice 2)After a hectic week of work and school, we DO NOT welcome disturbances at home 3)If we choose not to answer the door as sugested in the article, my dog would bark her head off till the JWs got the hint and left (which speaking from experience, takes a lot, especially if they know you are home, but not answering the door). Solution: Send a message, such as the one mentioned in this article, that lets religious zealots know that Joe/Jane Canadian will find them if they want to change religions and keep away from our doors.

Name: Krystine
Occupation: legal assistant
Location: Montreal
Any law designed to limit the Jehovah Witness' practice of continually harassing my mom who is 78 and Catholic would be of great relief! We personnally have had every conceivable pair of Jehovah Witnesses visit our house despite our repeated requests to be left alone! Instead of trying to convert people, why don't the Jehovah Witnesses try to teach those who have no religion at all!

Name: Friar Tuck
Occupation: Missionary
Location: Montreal
What right do Christians have in stopping anyone from converting? Christianity was spread, forcibly at times so let the JHs do their thing!

Name: randall cross
Occupation: sales
Location: colorado
we have to start getting these jehova witnesses out to start understanding and stop scouring the neighborhoods for teenagers and old people to brainwash into their sect,its disgusting,they have nothing good to say about anything on this earth,all religion comes down to money.dont want them at your door.just put up the "donate blood"placard,thats all.

Name: Canuk
E-mail: [email protected]
Occupation:
Location: Ontario
I'm of mixed emotions on this one. While, like others, I don't want the JW's bugging me at my door I am disturbed by a law that wants to limit this kind of activity. To me this is "big brother" defining what can and cannot be and that bothers me. This could be expanded to include Haloween children, UNICEF, and others (to take it to the rediculous). I'm always concerned when anyones rights are limited in this country and it seems that in Quebec those rights are interfered with the most with: this law, language police and other such activities.

Name: gs
Occupation: canada post
Location: saint john
Just say no. These are nice well dressed people and won't bother you if you politely inform them you have other beliefs and are not interested in discussing them. I see these people all the time and I have had them at my door. They always leave if asked, never force me to listen. Also many people put up a simple sign saying they want no peddlers or religious groups at their door. Others like to hear the witnesses or confront their beliefs. These are moral people and do respect my privacy when told I'm not interested. I do not like them at my door either so I simply say no. The same tactic I use with people on the phone. Just say no.

Name: Linda
Occupation: Analyst
Location: Edmonton
When I lived in a house in NE Edmonton, we were harassed by these people every week. I told them time and time again that we were NOT interested and to please leave us alone. In the end, we got relief from these bothersome people by moving into an apartment with security. What gives them the right to come on my property time & bother me & my family when I have repeatedly asked them to leave us alone? There should be a law against this.

Name: Paula
Occupation: Customer Service Rep
Location: Kitchener
I feel that if we TRULY live in a FREE country, than freedom of speech is a RIGHT, not something that should be regulated. IF Jehovah's Witnesses should have some sort of licence to practice what they view as a requirement of their religion, then ALL door to door soliticers should have to do the same. Case in point, gas companies trying soliciting their service, telephone companies, flower sales, anything that disturbs people in their homes. Next it will be children selling chocolate bars after hours raising funds. If Canada is becoming a Country that DICTATES what one can and cannot do, then this is certainly NOT a free country but rather we are under DICTATORSHIP and that is something that is a frightening thought.

Name: Ben Kasapiano
Occupation: entrepreneur
Location: montreal
I can't tell you how happy I am that finally someone has put a stop to these bothersome people. If they want to express themselves, let them take out an ad, but to allow them to bother people at home at anytime is ridiculous. I have already been bothered by them on a sunday morning at 8 a.m. In my line of work, I'm busy on the weekends and I sometimes finish working at 2 or 3 in the morning so to be awakened by these people at 8 a.m...well, let's just say I wasn't very happy. Now if someone could also do something about telephone solicitors.

Name: rupert
Occupation: engineer
Location: Montreal
I'm no fan of the JWs coming to my door either, but i have to say that the few that have, have left when i said i was not interested. I'd rather have my freedom and let them have theirs If they keep coming back after you have asked them to leave - then that is harassment and tresspassing, and we already have laws for that.

Name: Byron Miller
E-mail: [edited]
Occupation: Minister, Author
Location: New Hampshire, USA
When "freedom of expression" becomes a proven nuisance, the community has a lawful right to mitigate it. Religions have no right to ride rough shod over the civil rights of others. If "Jehovah's Witnesses" incessantly blast their propaganda over loud speakers, their so-called "right" to express themselves would not stand in a court of law. Also, "Jehovah's Witnesses" have no right to trespass upon private property, and are properly subject to ejection and/or arrest for doing so. The law does not grant religious propagandists carte blanche to do as they please in society and they have absolutely no right to assume such status. When the "religious" act uncivily and unlawfully, it is the right of the citizenry to challenge them and win.

Name: JF
Occupation: Lawyer
Location:
I thougth it was a free expression country, now I have my doubts.

Name: Marcel
Occupation: Studant
Location: Brazil
I just can feel sad for all this intolerance. It´s almost increditable that there are people who think that it´s so disturbing to have a friendly couple of neighboors trying to talk to them for 3 minuts.

Name: David Ely
Occupation:
Location: Toronto
It is out of love for God and love of neighbour that Jehovah's Witnesses go from door-to-door. Jesus gave his followers the commission to preach (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19,20). We do it because we care about people. It is not our objective to argue with people who do not want to listen to our message. Most of us will leave your doorstep quite readily if asked to do so. We try to cover the territory assigned to our congregations in an organized fashion. Homes may be called on every 3 or 4 months. We do return if we found no one at home on our initial visit. If you strenuously object to Jehovah's Witnesses calling at your door it is your right to ask the individual calling to add your name and address to the list of homes not to be called on. This list is updated on a yearly basis. I get people canvassing at my door too. I may not be interested in what they have to offer or say, but I respect the rights that we have as Canadians to choose for ourselves on an individual basis.

Name: John
Occupation: self employed
Location: Ontario
What is of interest is how the JW's set up the town officials and then ask for payment for it. Traditionally, the WT Society lawyers will recruit 'exemplary publishers (ministers)" to go to the problem town (Blainville) and try to get charged. This is done to get the matter into court so they can challenge it. I find it very distasteful that they would then try to financially benefit from a situation that they themselves set up. I pity the individual Witnesses, but loathe the corporate (printing business) entity which cares little for individual rights within the confines of their Kingdom Hall but then hide under the banner of Democratic Freedoms. If a JW steps out of line of many man made rules, they can be excommunicated, losing contact with their family and friends. If caught associating, those JW can be kicked out to. So much for Freedom of association. For the Corporate entity it is all about numbers & dollars, of which they have steadily lost lately.

Name: Tom Wilson
Occupation:
Location: Toronto ON
The ability to walk on to my property and knock on my door is not a RIGHT. The right to religious freedom does not include the right to tresspass.

Name: Jesus and Gog is love
E-mail: [edited]
Occupation: Christian
Location: Montreal
Is out of love that they do, yes in some cases... preach Love, please don't preach religion. 1872,1914,1918,1975 and other dates,what is that? Ask Witness. Why only the anointed ones have to eat from Jesus body and blood? John 6:51-56:Unless you eat from the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his body you will have everlasting life. If Revelation was one of the last books written,the 1st century Christians did not know the "truth" about the 144000/anointed ones? ask Witness. Why Change the Lord word for Jehovah in the New Testament even when in some cases the Lord word was cleary addressed to Jesus. Romans 10:13:whom they(Jews) have not put faith(vv 14)? Jesus or God? please read Romans 10(totally). Why Jesus is the first and last(Rev 1:17-18,Rev 2:8,Rev 22:12-20) and also God is(Isa 44:06, Rev 2:8). ask Witness. Come Lord come Lord come God.. "yes I am coming quickly"(Rev 22:20). "..with great Power and Glory.."(Mark 13:26). peace and love for all.

Name: ABC
Occupation:
Location:
This harassment in our own homes and over the phone is only getting worse. We were being disturbed many times almost everyday for every conceivable cause, especially at suppertime or early on Saturday mornings, when we decided to put up a "no solliciting" sign on the door. While that helps in keeping most peddlers away, religious groups don't seem to get the message. They argue that they are not selling anything.

Name: Lilli-Anne McGaw
E-mail: [edited]
Occupation:
Location: montreal
The basis of christianity has always been proselytizing so why should there be resentment towards Jehovahs. They are one of a few denominations with an increased market share,they must be doing something right. Standing on a corner or attempting to raise an interest by going door to door in my thinking says a lot for their humility. The best part of course unlike the days of the jesuits, nursing and teaching missionaries if you aren't interested you simply close the door OR walk away.

Name: Kathy
E-mail: n/a
Occupation:
Location:
I have never heard JW go to shelters to fish for the followers.

Love, Scully

Satanus

Scully

Were those emails recieved by a newspaper or something?

SS

MrMoe

I feel bad if these poor people have to pay a hundred bucks a person... some of the pioneers are SO poor...

expatbrit

I'm sure the WTB&TS of Canada can stump up the readies, Moe!

Muahahahaha!!!!

Expatbrit

Xena

Well it's not like they are being banned completely, they are just being limited to reasonable hours during the day, during the week. And 2 months is plenty of time for them to ~~swarm~~ work one small town.

With all the child molesters and weirdos out there (and a good portion of them apparently ARE witnesses) I think it is a great idea that they have to register and identify themselves!

and their right of free speech ends when it infringes on my right of sleeping in on the weekends

Name:	Paul Banat
E-mail:	[edited]
Occupation:
Location:	Montreal

Jehovah's Witnesses have to understand that not all people like to be put in those "religious discussion situations.” The problem with Jehovah's Witnesses is they do not take no for an answer. They want you to read their brochures and listen to their stories. So I say this, if permits are issued there should be a number associated with that Jehovah's Witness and a phone number to complain to if that Jehovah's Witness does not take "No Thank You!" for an answer. Then that Jehovah's Witness license should be revoked.

Name:	Adam
Occupation:	Army
Location:	Kingston

Is it freedom of expression, or attempted conversion we are talking about? To me, freedom of expression would cover advertising to a broad target audience, not harassing people at their doors trying to tell them that their religion is wrong and that the JWs are right. To use my family as an example: 1)We belong to an established religion that we rarely practice 2)After a hectic week of work and school, we DO NOT welcome disturbances at home 3)If we choose not to answer the door as sugested in the article, my dog would bark her head off till the JWs got the hint and left (which speaking from experience, takes a lot, especially if they know you are home, but not answering the door). Solution: Send a message, such as the one mentioned in this article, that lets religious zealots know that Joe/Jane Canadian will find them if they want to change religions and keep away from our doors.

Name:	Krystine
Occupation:	legal assistant
Location:	Montreal

Any law designed to limit the Jehovah Witness' practice of continually harassing my mom who is 78 and Catholic would be of great relief! We personnally have had every conceivable pair of Jehovah Witnesses visit our house despite our repeated requests to be left alone! Instead of trying to convert people, why don't the Jehovah Witnesses try to teach those who have no religion at all!

Name:	Friar Tuck
Occupation:	Missionary
Location:	Montreal

What right do Christians have in stopping anyone from converting? Christianity was spread, forcibly at times so let the JHs do their thing!

Name:	Canuk
E-mail:	[email protected]
Occupation:
Location:	Ontario

I'm of mixed emotions on this one. While, like others, I don't want the JW's bugging me at my door I am disturbed by a law that wants to limit this kind of activity. To me this is "big brother" defining what can and cannot be and that bothers me. This could be expanded to include Haloween children, UNICEF, and others (to take it to the rediculous). I'm always concerned when anyones rights are limited in this country and it seems that in Quebec those rights are interfered with the most with: this law, language police and other such activities.

Name:	gs
Occupation:	canada post
Location:	saint john

Just say no. These are nice well dressed people and won't bother you if you politely inform them you have other beliefs and are not interested in discussing them. I see these people all the time and I have had them at my door. They always leave if asked, never force me to listen. Also many people put up a simple sign saying they want no peddlers or religious groups at their door. Others like to hear the witnesses or confront their beliefs. These are moral people and do respect my privacy when told I'm not interested. I do not like them at my door either so I simply say no. The same tactic I use with people on the phone. Just say no.

Name:	Linda
Occupation:	Analyst
Location:	Edmonton

When I lived in a house in NE Edmonton, we were harassed by these people every week. I told them time and time again that we were NOT interested and to please leave us alone. In the end, we got relief from these bothersome people by moving into an apartment with security. What gives them the right to come on my property time & bother me & my family when I have repeatedly asked them to leave us alone? There should be a law against this.

Name:	Paula
Occupation:	Customer Service Rep
Location:	Kitchener

I feel that if we TRULY live in a FREE country, than freedom of speech is a RIGHT, not something that should be regulated. IF Jehovah's Witnesses should have some sort of licence to practice what they view as a requirement of their religion, then ALL door to door soliticers should have to do the same. Case in point, gas companies trying soliciting their service, telephone companies, flower sales, anything that disturbs people in their homes. Next it will be children selling chocolate bars after hours raising funds. If Canada is becoming a Country that DICTATES what one can and cannot do, then this is certainly NOT a free country but rather we are under DICTATORSHIP and that is something that is a frightening thought.

Name:	Ben Kasapiano
Occupation:	entrepreneur
Location:	montreal

I can't tell you how happy I am that finally someone has put a stop to these bothersome people. If they want to express themselves, let them take out an ad, but to allow them to bother people at home at anytime is ridiculous. I have already been bothered by them on a sunday morning at 8 a.m. In my line of work, I'm busy on the weekends and I sometimes finish working at 2 or 3 in the morning so to be awakened by these people at 8 a.m...well, let's just say I wasn't very happy. Now if someone could also do something about telephone solicitors.

Name:	rupert
Occupation:	engineer
Location:	Montreal

I'm no fan of the JWs coming to my door either, but i have to say that the few that have, have left when i said i was not interested. I'd rather have my freedom and let them have theirs If they keep coming back after you have asked them to leave - then that is harassment and tresspassing, and we already have laws for that.

Name:	Byron Miller
E-mail:	[edited]
Occupation:	Minister, Author
Location:	New Hampshire, USA

When "freedom of expression" becomes a proven nuisance, the community has a lawful right to mitigate it. Religions have no right to ride rough shod over the civil rights of others. If "Jehovah's Witnesses" incessantly blast their propaganda over loud speakers, their so-called "right" to express themselves would not stand in a court of law. Also, "Jehovah's Witnesses" have no right to trespass upon private property, and are properly subject to ejection and/or arrest for doing so. The law does not grant religious propagandists carte blanche to do as they please in society and they have absolutely no right to assume such status. When the "religious" act uncivily and unlawfully, it is the right of the citizenry to challenge them and win.

Name:	JF
Occupation:	Lawyer
Location:

I thougth it was a free expression country, now I have my doubts.

Name:	Marcel
Occupation:	Studant
Location:	Brazil

I just can feel sad for all this intolerance. It´s almost increditable that there are people who think that it´s so disturbing to have a friendly couple of neighboors trying to talk to them for 3 minuts.

Name:	David Ely
Occupation:
Location:	Toronto

It is out of love for God and love of neighbour that Jehovah's Witnesses go from door-to-door. Jesus gave his followers the commission to preach (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19,20). We do it because we care about people. It is not our objective to argue with people who do not want to listen to our message. Most of us will leave your doorstep quite readily if asked to do so. We try to cover the territory assigned to our congregations in an organized fashion. Homes may be called on every 3 or 4 months. We do return if we found no one at home on our initial visit. If you strenuously object to Jehovah's Witnesses calling at your door it is your right to ask the individual calling to add your name and address to the list of homes not to be called on. This list is updated on a yearly basis. I get people canvassing at my door too. I may not be interested in what they have to offer or say, but I respect the rights that we have as Canadians to choose for ourselves on an individual basis.

Name:	John
Occupation:	self employed
Location:	Ontario

What is of interest is how the JW's set up the town officials and then ask for payment for it. Traditionally, the WT Society lawyers will recruit 'exemplary publishers (ministers)" to go to the problem town (Blainville) and try to get charged. This is done to get the matter into court so they can challenge it. I find it very distasteful that they would then try to financially benefit from a situation that they themselves set up. I pity the individual Witnesses, but loathe the corporate (printing business) entity which cares little for individual rights within the confines of their Kingdom Hall but then hide under the banner of Democratic Freedoms. If a JW steps out of line of many man made rules, they can be excommunicated, losing contact with their family and friends. If caught associating, those JW can be kicked out to. So much for Freedom of association. For the Corporate entity it is all about numbers & dollars, of which they have steadily lost lately.

Name:	Tom Wilson
Occupation:
Location:	Toronto ON

The ability to walk on to my property and knock on my door is not a RIGHT. The right to religious freedom does not include the right to tresspass.

Name:	Jesus and Gog is love
E-mail:	[edited]
Occupation:	Christian
Location:	Montreal

Is out of love that they do, yes in some cases... preach Love, please don't preach religion. 1872,1914,1918,1975 and other dates,what is that? Ask Witness. Why only the anointed ones have to eat from Jesus body and blood? John 6:51-56:Unless you eat from the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his body you will have everlasting life. If Revelation was one of the last books written,the 1st century Christians did not know the "truth" about the 144000/anointed ones? ask Witness. Why Change the Lord word for Jehovah in the New Testament even when in some cases the Lord word was cleary addressed to Jesus. Romans 10:13:whom they(Jews) have not put faith(vv 14)? Jesus or God? please read Romans 10(totally). Why Jesus is the first and last(Rev 1:17-18,Rev 2:8,Rev 22:12-20) and also God is(Isa 44:06, Rev 2:8). ask Witness. Come Lord come Lord come God.. "yes I am coming quickly"(Rev 22:20). "..with great Power and Glory.."(Mark 13:26). peace and love for all.

Name:	Lilli-Anne McGaw
E-mail:	[edited]
Occupation:
Location:	montreal

The basis of christianity has always been proselytizing so why should there be resentment towards Jehovahs. They are one of a few denominations with an increased market share,they must be doing something right. Standing on a corner or attempting to raise an interest by going door to door in my thinking says a lot for their humility. The best part of course unlike the days of the jesuits, nursing and teaching missionaries if you aren't interested you simply close the door OR walk away.

Name:	Kathy
E-mail:	n/a
Occupation:
Location:

I have never heard JW go to shelters to fish for the followers.

Town says ban on Jehovah's Witness canvassing reasonable

Satanus

Satanus

Scully

Satanus

MrMoe

expatbrit

Xena

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