murder letter

by silentlambs 49 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • sf
    sf

    Hello,

    You said:> "...if it can be put in a spot for everyone to see".

    With all due respect, hasn't anyone been paying attention to what I have been conveying as to what I do with my time on the internet?
    That letter and all the others that are on there way are and WILL be cut, copied, pasted and posted on every single site, jw page and religious chatroom on the internet. I have taken it upon mySELF to bring to the nations what they have a RIGHT TO KNOW!

    So you see my friend, there are no "ifs" here. Not as long as I am able to continue to plaster the documentation of the massive corruption that has been coming into that tower and going out of that tower, for years.

    In Yahoo messenger chatrooms, I am actively, daily, exhaustingly, cutting and pasting like crazy news articles, posts, threads, direct quotes, scanned docs, everything I think and feel the nations need to see and hear. Mostly though I bring what they vitally need to hear, such as these "WT LETTERS" and all of Mr. Bowens related material. When Mr. Watters and/or Kent and/or Tally or Focus or PB or Norm or Alan and Farkel post threads and links...I am on top of it all! Cut/ paste is now my middle name. At your service.

    Scally (no ifs, ands, or butts-its ACTIONMODE time class)

  • unanswered
    unanswered

    it's been covered by other responses, but i just wanted to add my reaction of disgust to the thread. it so messed up that the only thing the WT seemed to be worried about is the possible marijuana use. i don't even know what to say. thanks for bringing this to our attention, silent.-nate

  • Pork Chop
    Pork Chop

    While this letter seems to have struck many as very wrong, any other course would be a violation of the law because this is privileged information. In almost every state the Law is very similar to New Jersey's as follows:

    "The first issue is whether any correspondence or any communications in the files of the Vicar for Priests is protected by the "cleric-penitent" privilege. The cleric-penitent privilege is codified at N.J.S.A. 2A:84A-23,See footnote 2 which provides:
    Any communication made in confidence to a cleric in the cleric's professional character, or as a spiritual advisor in the course of the discipline or practice of the religious body to which the cleric belongs or of the religion which the cleric professes, shall be privileged. Privileged communications shall include confessions and other communications made in confidence between and among the cleric and individuals, couples, families or groups in the exercise of the cleric's professional or spiritual counseling role.

    As used in this section, "cleric" means a priest, rabbi, minister or other person or practitioner authorized to perform similar functions of any religion. The privilege accorded to communications under this rule shall belong to both the cleric and the person or persons making the communication and shall be subject to waiver only under the following circumstances:

    (1) both the person or persons making the communication and the ccleric consent to the waiver of the privilege; or
    (2) the privileged communication pertains to a future criminal act, in which case, the cleric alone may, but is not required to, waive the privilege.

    The codified privilege was revised by the Legislature in response to a narrow interpretation given the privilege in State v. Szemple, 135 N.J. 406 < http://lawlibrary.rutgers.edu/cgi-bin/caselink.cgi?cite=135%20N.J.%20406>; (1994). Szemple held that the statute conferred a testimonial privilege only on clergypersons, and that the clergypersons "alone may elect to waive the privilege in their sole discretion and within the dictates of their religious beliefs." Id. at 422-23. Thus, the penitent need not consent to the disclosure of a confession. Id. at 423. In 1994, the Legislature revised the privilege "with unmistakable clarity to confer on both the cleric and on the party who made the communication the power to prevent its disclosure." Biunno, Current N.J. Rules of Evidence, comment 3 to N.J.R.E. 511 (1998-99). "Both the cleric and the penitent are now holders of the privilege." Ibid."

    The same course would be followed by minsters of any religion, attorneys, some kinds of social workers, etc.

  • JWD
    JWD

    Pork Chop,
    Am I paranoid, or why is it that I get the feeling that you are
    a member of the WTS legal department who`s job includes discouraging
    `apostates` from taking action which might not be good for the org.
    Am I being hypersensative? Mind sharing a bit about yourself? JWD

  • LovesDubs
    LovesDubs

    Im in Florida..this is VERY disturbing to me...that there is someone who has taken REFUGE within the confines of a religious organization knowing that they will not turn him in to the authorities! What makes anybody think this guy wont kill again or HASNT ALREADY killed again??? We owe it to the families of his victims to have him prosecuted if this happened at all. Florida has been known to be a prime place to murder and dump bodies because of the heat here...the evidence rapidly disintigrates.

    I want to send this to the police...but not sure if they can receive a Jpeg file.

    help help! I live next door to a Kingdom Hall I dont want this perp living by ME as Im sure nobody else does.

    What can you tell us SL?

  • outnfree
    outnfree

    So are elders "clerics" or not? (They're certainly not trained -- just volunteers -- to paraphrase the WTS Public Affairs office.)

    If EVERY Jehovah's Witness is an ordained minister at baptism, isn't this information cleric-cleric communication?

    Is the brother concerned here a "penitent" if he isn't turning himself in to the authorities? Aren't penitents in the usual sense of the word seeking absolution from sin -- which would be given not by ignoring that the sin was committed but by assigning works befitting repentance?

    Haven't we all read past issues of the WT with life stories of brothers/sisters who had been guilty of crimes who went back to repair the damage (and/or serve time) either before or after becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses because they CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD that to be forgiven one must turn around and actually REPENT?

    The letter from the Watch Tower Society does not even take the moral high ground and suggest to the elders that they counsel this young man to "do the right thing" and turn himself in. To suggest to the murderer that his "sin" will become a heavy burden and that the honorable thing to do as a Christian is to repent, go to the authorities (set in place by Jehovah God for our good), and pay the consequences trusting in Jehovah that whatever results will be the right discipline from Jehovah.

    No. Just that he needn't apply for "extra privileges" and that they can continue with their marijuana use investigation!

    The WTBTS may, indeed, be legally constrained not to report this information under Florida law, but they are NOT morally constrained from urging the confessed murderer to turn himself in to the police.

    THAT is why "this letter seems to have struck many as very wrong," PorkChop!

    outnfree

  • AuSet
    AuSet

    No, JWD, you are not being paranoid,I assure you.

    Pork Chop: Must've really scared the shit out of you freaks

    at the WBTS, otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need

    to respond, so quickly, with a legal statement defending

    the WBTS's letter!!

  • chasson
    chasson

    I think that this is a new strategy from WTBS.

    Curiously, we have surely in the french's newsgroup a lawyer of the
    WTBS (M. Alain Garay who use the pseudo "Davy_tj") talking about
    the Remi's case. I think that when there is a new problem, the
    lawyer of Wtbs talked on the internet. But only them, not th R&F.

    Bye

    Charles

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    But of course, the elder arrangement is supposed to be far different from the "cleric" arrangement of other religions. These men are not supposed to hold any real distinctive role in the congregation beyond being "mature christians" essentially.

    Boy oh boy, I bet an elder would be in BIG trouble if he let the law know about a murderer.

    Remind me please, Pork Chops, who would he be in trouble with?

  • Tallyman
    Tallyman
    Pork Chop, Am I paranoid, or why is it that I get the feeling that you are a member of the WTS legal department who`s job includes[...]

    JWD,
    I get the same vibe about "Pork Chop"... fitting name if s/he is a Mole here for the Kult, since the WTS largely views their membership as 'Pieces of Meat' to be used.

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