Do you believe in God now? (page 13)

Ron1968

Oxnard, fellow newbie, I am glad to have you posting. I would not try to reason too much with athiests as they think that faith is irrational.

That limits my discussion with them a lot.

Ron

Ron1968

Was Mr. Spock an atheist? It would be the only logical thing right?

Ron

You are right that atheists believe faith is irrational. But that's where we start talking past one another. The label irrational is not necessarily a pejoritive. It's just a fact. As has been said before, faith and other irrational things can be a beautiful thing. My love of Radiohead music is irrational, but it still exists. Isn't that beautiful?

The only time these discussions flare up is when theists try to defend their faith as being rational instead of just saying "I have faith and it's a beautiful thing." If people really are offended by the use of the word irrational, then they should start looking into their beliefs and what they are based on. If they are not willing to do so, then they should embrace their irrationality. There's really nothing wrong with it... as long as you can admit it.

rem

Ron1968

Good point Rem!

That was a good point Rem and unlike other aethiests on the board (I won't name anyone), you seem to be empathtic towards how faith can be a beautiful thing. Thanks for the post.

Ron

Oxnard Hamster

If the concept of non-belief as default is so ridiculous, perhaps you can articulate why.

Like I said, you will always be influenced by outside forces, whether it be your upbringing, personal preference, past experiences, etc. Yeah, I did admit that my default for invisible unicorns or whatever they are is they don't exist, but I also admitted that it's a default due to my bias, thus it's not really a default at all.

starScream

rem,

Very well, you were mistaken about what I said on abiogenesis.

It seems we have both come to certain agreements based upon further clarification of our concerns.

I had a new claim recently that the educational community is being deceptive concerning the verasity of scientific evidence for their assertions concerning the origin of species. It is a subject that is better suited for another thread.

Honestly, I am bored at this point but I think we have several good topics for future discussion.

JT

He even speaks to me when I listen closely enough

6 billions folks on earth and god is talking to this person hummmm

rem

Like I said, you will always be influenced by outside forces, whether it be your upbringing, personal preference, past experiences, etc.

And that is exactly the point.

rem

Ravyn

WHY DEISM?
by Robert L. Johnson

Regarding society, anything useful is worth preserving, anything useless should be purged. What usefulness does revealed religion (in this article, Christianity) serve? What usefulness does the natural religion/philosophy, Deism, serve?

Christianity has long outlived its usefulness in today's society. Its dogmas have been proven false, its teachings without foundation. The perverted and distorted image of God it offers can only repulse a thinking person.

A good example of the absurdity of Christianity still being a major religion in the modern era is found in Ephesians 6:5, which deals with the way slaves should treat their masters and masters should treat their slaves. As most people are aware, slavery has not existed for well over 100 years. And the fact that the Bible doesn't speak out against it, but instead openly encourages slaves to "obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, . . . " is nauseating to people with a soul and who employ God's gift of reason.

Christianity is not only useless, but is also very dangerous. Christian organizations are successfully fighting to gain political power in the United States as is evident from observing groups like Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition and Jerry Falwell's Liberty University. If their current political victories continue, such as their two governorships, two Senate seats, two House seats, and the mayoral position for both Los Angeles and New York, it is just a matter of time until we find ourselves living in a fundamentalist controlled, superstition centered America. Because all the people at the grass roots level in the religious right are firm believers in revealed religion, we will be at the complete mercy of Pat Robertson and the others. The Christian leadership will be able to turn the most primitive, regressive, and oppressive Judeo-Christian dogma into the law of the land.

With a majority of both Houses of Congress and their man in the White House (which they are in the process of attaining right NOW), the inquisitors will be back on their circuits rounding up the heretics for their Lord Jesus Christ, who the religious right considers "the ruler of the Nations." Just as they now remove books from schools, so they will then remove freedom from the land and people from their homes as in the Inquisition.

Not only will we lose our individual liberties, we, and the entire world, will be pushed closer to nuclear war due to the fundamentalists' ingrained image of the apocalypse. The overwhelming potential for self-fulfilling prophecy in this situation would have irreversible consequences for the entire planet.

The magnitude of the above probable dire possibilities, should the Judeo-Christian fundamentalists continue to meet with success in the field of politics, is obvious to every thinking person. The trouble is, not enough people think. This lack of thought is due in large part to revealed religion. It teaches us, usually at a very early age, to neglect God's gift of reason and substitute in its place what the priests created and call faith. What they are actually saying is, "Trust me." The credulous mind-set this breeds in mankind is exploited not only by religious leaders, but also by political charlatans. It is what makes possible nightmares such as the Viet Nam war, the slaughter in Iraq, and many other deadly games of revealed religion, government, and big business. The natural religion/philosophy, Deism, teaches us to utilize Gods gift of reason by thinking. When enough of us do this the nightmares will end.

A large part of the usefulness of Deism to society is found in its role as the only answer to the threat from the religious right. Because Deism firmly embraces a belief in God, even though it doesn't recognize revelation except through the Creation itself, a large number of the rank and file, the people doing the actual work for the right, will be attracted to it. The sincere activists, the ones who want to serve God, will see one preacher after another loose debates against Deists. The ones that truly believe in God will still feel in their hearts that God is real, but will realize, that by following a religion that has been honestly proven wrong and which continues to preach obvious falsehoods, they are not on the correct path. After all, if God is real you won't learn anymore about Him by following a religion that isn't. Deism is much closer to the true nature of God than Christianity is.

This realization will win over many soldiers of the Falwells, Robertsons, Norths, and others, thus knocking the wind out of the charlatans, and removing them as a real threat to our basic freedoms, to progress, and to life itself.

rem

Sounds great, Starscream. Looking forward to future topics!

rem

Do you believe in God now?

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