The Watchtower is a disgusting, family-destroying, dehumanising cult.
Many of it's members are nice people.
Anybody disagree?
An Atheist Visits A Kingdom Hall
by Bangalore 50 Replies latest jw friends
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steve2
Actually reaction to Nerd in the Brain appears to have been over the top and unjustified. Surely it's okay for posters to have very different views to a topic - besides I did not find Nerd in the Brain saying anything like that outlined in Chris Hannover's reply.
Cofty you sum up my view nicely.
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Sabin
Label licker, Yes you do have a right to feel sad & angry & every one on here supports you. This has been a trigger for you that has brought back terrible feelings. Nerd in the brain, is not trying to hurt you personally & I have to say really has only one experience to speak of with the JW's. When some-one hasn't been exposed to the bigger picture (which isn't their fault) what else can they say. In general I find that in any organization there will be the righteous & unrighteous, then the small group of the GOOD who are more concerned with the un-justices brought on others more so than on themselves.
Nerd in the Brain, thank you for taking the time to explain yourself that was kind. I do hope after reading Label lickers experience you can find some room in your heart to understand her response. And may I suggest that you ask your friend to show you the October 2012 policies on chid abuse within the JW organization. Then you will have a better idea of which group your friends truly are in (righteous/un-righteous/good). You will probably find they don't know anything about these policies, because the top dogs in the org have a habit of lying by omission to the lowly members. I am glad that you have found some good friends wether JW's or no.
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Beth Sarim
Many of the Borg's people are nice people. Agreed. It's just most if not all of the public are not aware of it's dehumanizing ways!!! -
Nerd in the Brain
steve2 - Thank you!
Sabin - I do have room in my heart to understand hurt and pain and anger. I do not, however, have much room to understand being told that I should join up with pedophiles and horrible people because I have written a blog post about going to one meeting at a Kingdom Hall. That sort of behavior/reaction/injustice should not be tolerated or accepted. And, yes, it is an injustice. That sort of reaction and condemnation of people a person doesn't even know are the root of far more serious problems than an internet disagreement. That said, I sincerely hate it that bad things have happened her, and I do hope that she finds relief from her pain. And I will certainly ask about the October 2012 policies (along with several other things based on this conversation thread). Thank you for taking the time to mediate and educate!
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breakfast of champions
After reading these comments, I took a look for myself at the article to see what the fuss is about.
Yeah, I don't particularly care for it either.
It seems voyeuristic/touristy.
Like when your parents take the bus tour to the Great Pyramid and rave how lovely/amazing it was, and what a sight. . . .
In the meantime. . . . behind the bus. . . . in Cairo. . . .
. . . . . lies rot and filth and stench and unescapable misery for thousands and thousands of people.
But the Pyramids were such an architectural marvel and our tour guide was a really nice guy!
Also, if NERD IN THE BRAIN thinks his MIL has fully accepted him and has NO EXPECTATION WHATSOEVER of him ever converting, he does not understand the power a cult has over it's members.
NITB: Your MIL (if she's an honest-to-John JW) believes you are dead meat at the Big A (which is coming SOON).
Sure, she'll deny it, or say "Only Big J can judge," but as of now, you are worldly, dangerous, and doomed.
How do I know this?
Because this is EXACTLY how I was programmed to think and feel by this cult.
[Edit to add]: I also must call into question NITB's statement that the music was "beautiful."
Are you sure you were in a Kingdom hall?
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Nerd in the Brain
breakfast of champions - Though I don't fully agree with it, your analogy makes sense to me. I think the thing that people are missing is that my blog is about my experiences as I've experienced them. I have never represented my blog as hard-hitting news, research-based, or even giving the full picture. It is my personal blog where I tell my personal experiences as I personally feel about them. It's not there to sway, preach to, convert, or challenge anyone. It is my thoughts on my experiences. There is not a single thing in that post that is untrue or inaccurate...that was my experience and those are my thoughts on the experience. I understand that the people on this site see a different side of the JW denomination. I don't dispute that it exists. I don't dispute that people have been hurt by it. I do dispute people insulting me, badmouthing my family, and accusing me of things. Honestly, I do not understand the reactions. It's not as if I'm telling people to go dashing to the nearest Kingdom Hall and drink the Kool Aid...I just did a post about what I observed when I went to a church that I was invited to by a friend...I just don't see how that deserves the animosity that it's receiving. (Edit: I feel like if people took even a few moments to look at other posts on the blog, they would quickly see that the conclusions they're jumping to about my person based on that post may be a bit askew.)
As to my mother-in-law...it is interesting to me how people who do not know her in the slightest feel free to lay judgment and blame on her. I'm sure she does think that I'm in big trouble when the so-called Armageddon comes. If she believes that, she keeps it to herself. Religion isn't even something that gets discussed in our family very often, so it's not an issue in our day-to-day lives. And if she believes that horror will befall my soul, so be it. Here, on Earth, in this life, she has been nothing but a wonderful mother to my husband, a fantastic grandmother, and the best mother-in-law I could have ever hoped for. As an Atheist, I'm only concerned about here, on Earth, in this life, so that all works out for me.
And I really did enjoy the music at the service...I thought it was lovely. :)
And I have to ask...as I mentioned in another comment, I don't understand all of the "he"s and "him"s. I mean, I have nothing against the male gender, but I'm pretty sure I haven't spontaneously become male because of a blog post that got shared from nearly a year ago. ;)
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Sabin
You are most welcome, we are not a bad bunch on here, please don't leave over one discussion that didn't go to well. You will find that some times when one of our fellow forum friends is hurt we all jump to defend, to protect. Especially those who have experienced being brutally & unjustly treated by JW's leaders/elders.
The reason I suggest about those policies is so you can see the lies that those at the top are telling to those like your friends who would be considered at the bottom. The sad fact is that many of us have defended the org & in my own case would have gladly died for it only to be devastated to discover that we were played for fools. Now most passionately (not always in the best of ways) would wish to spare others like yourself that pain. That is the basic fact of the matter.
If you have no joy, please if you have time take a look at the Australian Royal Commission & Jehovah's Witnesses, you will have it straight from the horses mouth. No Care, No compassion, No justice, No love for these poor innocent children who now number into 10's of 1000's around the world.
jwfacts
jwsurvey
AAWA2014
jwstruggle
you could also take a look at Steven Hassan book, Combating Cult Mind Control.
I am a Jehovah's witness, I do believe in God in his son Christ Jesus & the bible that tells us at proverbs 18:15 "The heart of the understanding one acquires knowledge,& the ear of the wise one seeks to find knowledge". The facts are what they are, some desire to be in the "Truth" while others like myself & many on this forum desire "THE Truth". I hope this is of help to you.
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steve2
There's still a strong tone of posters telling Nerd in the Brain what the Witnesses are really like, with no allowance that his experience may well be different.
Back off people. He's got a brain. NITB can work out things himself. This is like the reverse of what Witnesses tell others what apostates are like with no allowance of huge individual differences.
My now deceased JW mother who believed she was "in the truth" was a quiet rebel who chose to continue having social and family gatherings with her disfellowshipped son and who often said to him (me), "No son of mine holds his head low so hold you head high". Amazing. She did not make a fuss of her frequent loving contacts with me but nor did she hide it.
So when posters say that, underneath it all, JWs in good standing think you are dead meat at the Big A, I say, "Don't assume that at all". There is likely greater variability within the hearts of many JWs than we ever give them credit for (but, yes, nor does this gainsay the unlovling judgementalism exhibited by many Withesses)
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breakfast of champions
Thanks for your response NERD IN THE BRAIN. I do see where you're coming from.
But also try to see where a lot of people here are coming from. . ..
When you sat down in that Kingdom Hall:
Three rows up from you was a lovely pioneer sister. Happy, smiling caring person. I think she even said "hi" to you.
A week from now she will get involved in a terrible automobile accident, and the only way to save her one-and-only life will be to take a blood transfusion. She will refuse it, as she has been programmed to do by this cult, and die.
You also might have heard a really bright, young kid give a terrific answer at the Watchtower study.
Not only did he give a good answer, the kid is smart as hell. He's the type of kid that could grow up and be part of the research team that finds out how to beat cancer.
But he doesn't. He doesn't even go to University, because he and his parents have been beaten over the head with cult propaganda that college and is DANGEROUS, WORTHLESS, and a TRAP devised by SATAN to destroy a young person's faith. He spends the rest of his life in a mindless job that just barely supports his existence as a pioneer.
And then you have that young girl sitting your left, about 9 years old. She was just baptized at the last Circuit Assembly because -- as we have heard recently -- anyone who is beyond the toddler stage of life has no reason not to be baptized.
However, about 15 years from now, she will come to realize that this "religion" is a complete crock of shit, and that there is no way she can continue in it. She tries to leave gracefully, stating she just doesn't believe, but in the end is disfellowshipped for apostasy, and loses all of her friends and family. They will never talk to or even acknowledge her existence ever again.
Actually, this may not be anything like the Kingdom Hall you went to.
But this is very much like the Kingdom Hall I and many others here grew up in.