Writers (not God) are at fault

by anointed1 19 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  anointed1

  If scriptures are written by people who have no sense of justice, it is natural that God would be misrepresented—something that happened to the biblical God. To mention a few:

  1) David, murderer of the innocent and faithful, wrote portions of the Bible.

  2) Paul who set in opposition to genuine apostles who were directly trained by Jesus himself sarcastically describing them as “superfine apostles” openly declared in some places that it was not spirit, but he was writing. (1 Corinthians 7:25) He even openly acknowledges that he uses the tactic of telling “lie” in writing scriptures (Romans 3:7) His sense of justice goes extremely distorted when he says ‘a slave should not change his status’ which is not only an endorsement of slavery, but also glorification of it—1 Corinthians 7:21.

  3) Peter who forgot his own use of exaggeration (“Even if all fall away on account of you, I never will” and yet he fell away repeatedly!—Mathew 26:33) paints a cruel God who brings instant death sentence on people for slightly exaggerating their generosity. (Acts 5:1-11)

  Yet other parts of the Bible show God would not kill even a donkey (Number 22:32, 33) let alone human child—something He says ‘has not come into His mind.’ (Jeremiah 7:31) This means genocide attributed to God is actually writers’ invention. Originals were destroyed repeatedly when the Jerusalem Temple was destroyed in 607 BCE, 70 CE, and also in the destruction of ancient Royal Library of Alexandria. This gave later writers opportunity to rewrite everything in the way they liked which compels readers to conclude that God of the Bible as warmonger, blood-thirsty, unreasonable …. etc. Such reaction is like that of children watching/experiencing the consequences of bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. They do not know that Japan attacked America (as part of their ongoing aggressive/imperialistic policy) and America was only responding as victim against its victimizer or aggressor.

  Interestingly, God’s silence gives a louder and clear message that giving a book is not His way of guidance, hence He has no obligation to protect it.
• 

  Xanthippe

  Following that logic God has no written will or requirements for us therefore religion is redundant. We can choose to be moral, ethical, thinking beings. We need to care for our planet and our fellow humans if we are to survive.

  Personally I don't think he exists but when you say

  Interestingly, God’s silence gives a louder and clear message that giving a book is not His way of guidance, hence He has no obligation to protect

  I wonder what you think his way of guidance is? His silence gives the clear message of his non-existence to me.
• 

  anointed1

  xanthippe, You said: “I wonder what you think his way of guidance is?”

  He has provided guidance, and many are following it. To mention a few:

  1) The incomprehensibly vast size of the universe teaches how insignificant our earth and all its inhabitants are (which means there is no basis for anyone to feel self-important)

  2) The way planets and stars act too teaches us humility! They move around keeping to their orbits just like vehicles follow lane-discipline on a busy express highway (as though submitting themselves to some unseen authority).

  3) Plants produce fragrant and beautiful flowers and trees produce fruits for others to enjoy (not for themselves). They too are living lessons of humility.

  4) All the stories and histories written show that those who pursued self-importance reaped misery in the end. [shows that all the writers are somehow led by some imperceptible force to come to the same conclusion that ultimately truth wins and ego fails]

  Thus humans are soaked in the information that ego means trouble (conversely, going egoless means peace and prosperity) There are some who enter into silence (not just external, but internal also) where they come in alignment with God’s will for him for the moment. Anyone can try this as it cost nothing.

  Personally I feel that God exists, but He is not interested in receiving any worship or praise from us. I formulated this concept from the Bible: In the Bible, God describes Himself as the Supreme Ruler of the universe being seated on a throne from which “flashes of lightning” are coming. Further it is shown that and “in front of the throne, seven lamps” are blazing. (Revelation 4:3, 5) “Seven lamps” or seven highlights may remind us the seven qualities of God (knowledge, joy, love, power …). Around the throne, there are “four living creatures—one having the face like a man, and others looking like bull, lion and eagle. (Revelation 4:7) Since the whole revelation was given in signs or symbols (Revelation 1:1) these four living creatures should highlight four aspects of God’s propensity of Benefiting us, Elevating us, Sustaining us and Teaching us [we can form an acronym BEST]. Man’s face stands for benevolence [we call inhuman those who act injuriously]; bull (that is known for its strength) stands for His elevating us; lion (that is a symbol of authority) stands for His sustaining us; eagle (that is the symbol of far-sightedness or wisdom) stands for His teaching us. These four acts of Him are shown as bringing honor to Him. (Revelation 4:8) Hence I take this as guidance given to me from God that whatever I do should be BEST: Benefitting others, Elevating others, Sustaining others and Teaching others.
• 

  anointed1

  Xanthiappe, you may be thinking now how I can take guidance from the Bible about which I said in the OP that much of the Bible is written by people with no moral sense. Yet it does’nt mean that it does not contain some pearls of wisdom.

  It is like a forest that contains wild trees and cruel animals, yet it also contains some sweet and pure streams and beautiful and fragrant flowers. Revelation chapter 4 is one such pure stream. Deuteronomy 10:17 which says ‘God does not distinguish between pagans and His people’ is another beautiful flower. That means whatever it says about what is universally acceptable—can be taken.
• 

  GoneAwol

  anointed 1: "Personally I feel that God exists, but He is not interested in receiving any worship or praise from us. I formulated this concept from the Bible:"

  but earlier you wrote:

  "This gave later writers opportunity to rewrite everything in the way they liked "

  How can you formulate an opinion let alone live by it if it's been rewritten by man?

  You're just spouting bullshit! Making it up as you go along. Then telling others about it. Keep it to yourself. Unless its backed by evidence. Which it isn't...

  
  

  
  
  
  
• 

  Xanthippe

  1. The universe being vast is for us to imagine it's there to teach us humility is a heck of a waste of intellect.

  2. We could be destroyed by a meteorite at any time, it probably killed the dinosaurs.

  3. Do I have to list countless poisonous berries, plants and fungi that we have only learnt to avoid through heartbreaking trial and error? A few labels from God would have been helpful.

  4. You attribute the collected wisdom of human literature and philosophy to God? Purely on the basis that a lot of it makes sense? You give us so little credit. Get off your knees and engage your brain.
• 

  schnell

  1) The incomprehensibly vast size of the universe teaches how insignificant our earth and all its inhabitants are (which means there is no basis for anyone to feel self-important)

  I do marvel at the immensity of the universe and at our own importance or lack thereof. However, be sure not to focus so much on humility to the detriment of pride. Pride is important, because it is connected with honor and shame. If you can take away someone's pride, you can also take away their honor, and their shame.

  2) The way planets and stars act too teaches us humility! They move around keeping to their orbits just like vehicles follow lane-discipline on a busy express highway (as though submitting themselves to some unseen authority).

  Go with the flow. It's called gravity and has nothing to do with humility or submission. You do not submit to gravity anymore than you could choose to defy it.

  3) Plants produce fragrant and beautiful flowers and trees produce fruits for others to enjoy (not for themselves). They too are living lessons of humility.

  Yes they do produce those flowers for themselves. Flowers, seeds, buds, and symbiosis with bees are means of reproduction.

  4) All the stories and histories written show that those who pursued self-importance reaped misery in the end. [shows that all the writers are somehow led by some imperceptible force to come to the same conclusion that ultimately truth wins and ego fails]

  No they do not all show this. Assholes don't always lose, and Habbakuk observed as much. Or don't you watch cable news?

  You really do seem overly focused on humility. Why so?
• 

  anointed1

  Xanthippe

  You say:

  1. The universe is vast for us to imagine it's there to teach us humility is a heck of a wate of intellect.
  [all right, you are free to take its opposite—try being egotistic and see whether it benefits you and those around you or not]

  2. We could be destroyed by a meteorite at any time, it probably killed the dinosaurs.
  [some meteors could have killed some dinosaurs or some species—so what? We humans are still alive on earth along with many other species—who is responsible for this big fact?. We are talking about the norm, not exception]

  3. Do I have to list countless poisonous berries, plants and fungi that we have only learnt to avoid through heartbreaking trial and error? A few labels from God would have been helpful.
  [poisonous beings exist—why worry about them as we always can find its proper use. Petrol is inflammatory—so what? We know how to use its inflammability to our own benefit]

  4. You attribute the collected wisdom of human literature and philosophy to God? Purely on the basis that a lot of it makes sense? You give us so little credit. Get off your knees and engage your brain.
  [I am not attributing human wisdom to God. I only meant this: If we want to see God’s guidance silently being conveyed through beings—inanimate and animate, we can. If we don’t want to see, we do not see]
• 

  anointed1

  schnell

  If you don’t see any lessons in those beings—inanimate and animate, you can formulate your life in any way you like, and it is ok if it makes you happy.

  But for me, taking lessons of humility from them makes me too happy, and those around me feel comfortable with me.
• 

  anointed1

  GoneAwol

  You say ‘I am contradicting what I originally said in the OP.’

  I repeat much of the Bible is written by people with no moral sense. Yet it does’nt mean that it has no pearls of wisdom. You remember the presidential debate--when asked do you respect each other--both of them stopped seeing the 100% negatives they were seeing, but both Trump and Hilary saw some positive points in each other. so is with the Bible.

  It is like a forest that contains wild trees and cruel animals, yet it also contains some sweet and pure streams and beautiful and fragrant flowers. Revelation chapter 4 is one such pure stream. Deuteronomy 10:17 which says ‘God does not distinguish between pagans and His people’ is another beautiful flower. That means whatever it says about what is universally acceptable—can be taken.