Agreed.
The point being that the current JW religion bears very little resemblance to what it was even a few decades ago (I joined in 1984) let alone what it's founder, C. T. Russell, had in mind.
jp
What Views or Beliefs Do Jehovah’s Witnesses No Longer Teach?
by minimus 54 Replies latest jw friends
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jp1692
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slimboyfat
Yes “soul sleep” for example is believed by Adventists, Christadelphians, and others. In fact even the term “soup sleep” is not one JWs tend to use for their belief (Christadelpuians don’t use the term either, although they share the belief) it’s a term that Adventists promoted, I think.
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jp1692
SBF: The term “soul sleep” is not one JWs tend to use for their belief.
This is, of course, another sign of a cult: They need to change terminology and/or redefine the meaning of words to give the illusion of being unique or special, which in reality they are not.
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minimus
Excellent thread especially for any Witness that believes the Truth never changes. And remember if any Jehovah’s Witness decided they did not believe the current view point as published by Jehovah’s Witnesses they were excommunicated disfellowshipped.
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careful
SBF,
"it’s a term that Adventists promoted, I think." I don't know about that, but it is sure THE term used by anti-JW (and anti-Adventist) evangelicals when they write their "anti-cult" stuff, and the topic is the state of the dead. -
slimboyfat
So “soul sleep” is not a term that Adventists use either, but is popular among opponents of the idea? I did wonder if that might be the case. It does sound a bit derogatory, so that makes sense. I need to be more careful not to use it then!
According to Wikipedia “mortalism”, as it is termed, has been present throughout the Christian tradition, including the reformation and particularly in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Annihilationism and conditionalism are related ideas.
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dropoffyourkeylee
I used to have a anti-Russell tract written in about 1910 that lambasted Russell for teaching 'the annihilation of Jesus Christ'', by which he was referring to the teaching that Jesus body was and dissolved, rather than bodily resurrected. I guess the evangelicals of the time (some still do) make a big issue about the bodily resurrection of the Christ, and anything else is blasphemy.
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minimus
Anti Russell tracts I bet we’re very popular
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minimus
Years ago the society taught the heart was always to be considered in a literal way. No symbolic heart . I sent the Society a letter questioning this interpretation and two months later was told not to question things and concentrate on my field ministry. The elders were given a copy of our correspondence to have a little talk with me. I was 18 at the time and I was trying to get appointed a ms and eventual elder when I was going to be 20... One month later, a new Question From Readers came out and the new understanding was given of the heart and I was right after all. Lol
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StephaneLaliberte
I never was deeply impacted by doctrinal changes as I always had my disagreements with the teachings. Strange as it may sound, it was changes in instructions and actions that impacted me the most.
1) They feared the internet. I always felt that truth should continually be tested and verified. How else will you do that if you never expose it to any contrary arguments?
2) Against preaching online: I personally believe it would have been great for the old and the desabled. But no... they feared the apostates.
3) Band brothers from forming small study groups: Somewhere in the early 2000, they wrote an article in the KM where they said that the brothers should not form small study groups outside of those managed by the watchtower. That to me rang very loud as an organization afraid too loose control. But than again, why would you be afraid to loose control if you have the truth?
4) Advised brothers against learning Greek and "over" study the scriptures. That this type of study should be left to the brothers in bethel while we should all focus on our ministry. This actually made them sound like the Catholics who, for many years, were telling their followers not to try to understand Latin.
5) They changed the kingdom songs. They changed the lyrics where they didn't need to, they change the rhythm and notes of songs to which hundreds of thousands of people were emotionally attached and wrote content that made them feel spiritually weak if they did not accept the change. This may sound trivial, but it is far from it. It displayed how authoritative and emotionally detached the leaders were.
6) The big move: They sold everything in new york with zero transparency into their financials. I was amazed to see how they asked soo much construction help from people in the org. I remember thinking: Are they preachers are construction workers for a real estate company? I don't have anything against building a church or bethel, but to me, that should be the case where fund are lacking and your organization is unable to pay professionals for it. But was it really the case? No way to know since there is zero transparency into their financial status.
7) They started staring on TV: Before, you didn't know who were the leaders and it made me feel that those who were taking the lead were not after fame. I used to brag about it and it was one of the arguments on how the JWs were better than the pope for example. Well, that all changed with tv.jw.org.
8) Kids videos: I was shocked by the level of brain washing found in these videos. Among the videos is the famous sparlock, not listening at the kingdom hall, msg against the homosexuals, and those on the them of donation.
9) No text msgs and emails to disfellowshiped: With technological changes, they added these two, which I found repugnant.
10) Legal battles against pedophile victims: I chocked by their response to pedophiles. They ignored or even attacked the victims, lied in court, broke the law. They also instructed their followers to see any criticism on the subject as apostate driven lies and deception. Then, they progressively changed their procedures without ever acknoledging any harm they have caused in the past.
11) Bragging about charity works: I was shocked by how much effort was made in creating professional videos, translate them in numerous languages while noticing that most of the work and donations actually came from local brothers and sisters.
12) Merging the construction, disaster relief and world wide work contribution boxes: This removed control from the locals. Now unable to vote with their money, all that was left was to give donations to this one place where there is absolutely no transparency.
13) Grabbing the donations from all kingdom halls: They drew the line at 5,000 $ and anything above had to be sent to Watchtower. Required for the brothers to fix a monthly amount that will be sent to watchtower. It had to be equal or grater than what they previously sent. Than, made a videos in which they played with the words even mentioning that they "forgot" the mortgages.
14) Changing the No 2. talk from the TMS. They removed the intro and conclusion from that part. I saw this as a way to control brothers that were not 100% in line with their way of teaching. It was a non confrontational, manipulative and dishonest way to control brothers by perpetually assigning them to such talks, if so desired.
15) Taking away the bible study groups: While I welcomed this move, again, I despised their way of doing it: For years I was told it was the most important meeting, the place we would go to if persecution hit, etc.. all this was simply ignored. Made me feel I had been deceived for years.
16) They instructed the congregations to remove the old books, even destroy some: This is a shocking attempt to ignore and forget history.
17) Too many videos at the meetings/assembly: Sure I can appreciate the videos, nothing wrong with that. Especially biblical drama.. its awesome. But when there are so many of them that they prevent local brothers and sisters from engaging in the teaching, its a problem. It shows a lack of trust on the local parishioners and an aggressive desire to exert total control. It basically was screaming "CULT" to me.
18) Suing watchtowerquotes.org: Here was a site that was simply displaying watchtower quotes, within their context. The nice thing about it was that it did not made any comments. This way, JWs could not say that apostates were making their publication say something that they didn't. It was great. I loved it. Then, Watchtower sued the Toronto (Canada) man for 100,000 dollars. Unable to defend himself, he shut the site down. This really hit me hard. How could they sue someone who quoted them in context from literature that we distributed for free?
19) Instructing the audience to sit down during the musical program at the assembly: The main reason I'd go to assemblies was to see old friends and acquaintances. And yet, for 10 to 15 minutes before the program, we were hunted down by brothers with "go take your place" signs and told to go sit during the musical program. This showed me how disconnected the "dear leaders" were with the regular folks.