Hello again Fearnotruth:
The evidence you have posted namely the WT benefiting from the PH Morris CompanieS does not prove conclusively that the Society derrives moneys from Tobbacco.
There are two aspects to that sentence, as I see it. First, that investing in a company does not necessarily mean deriving money from it, and secondly that investing in Philip Morris Companies does not necessarily mean deriving money from tobacco.
As regards the first aspect, sometimes investments lose value, that is a fact. However, when an investment is made, it is done with the intent of deriving a benefit, usually in the form of making a capital gain on the investment, and in receiving dividends from the company involved. That was obviously the intent with the Trust investing in Philip Morris Companies.
For the second aspect, it is true, and has been mentioned several times, that Philip Morris Companies (now Altria) owns non-tobacco companies, most notably Kraft. It is also true that Kraft is traded seperately. Why is this? Because the Philip Morris name is overwhelmingly associated with tobacco products. Any investment into the Philip Morris Companies is therefore inextricably connected with tobacco products. Even though the Group may make and sell other products, tobacco remains a fundamental part of Group activities. How can this square with the Watchtower principle of "keeping without spot from the world"? It's much like the library card excuse they gave for the UN. Even if that excuse had turned out to be the real reason, the fact remains that they had still associated themselves with "the wild beast", for whatever reason.
I am not eager to convict the WTS of propheting from Tobbaco when that has not been established as fact on this Board. It must be proven that the Society is making money from Tobacco. You have not done that. Hence, the accusations you make against the WT with regard to Tobacco are unfounded and unfair. A case first must be proven before judgement is passed
I was unaware that this board is a court of law. I posted information I had, and I gave my opinion on it. People can draw their own conclusions. Sixofnine has for instance, and I respect that. So have you, and I respect that. Many others, it would seem, can see the hypocrisy of the Watchtower's position on this.
You have not posted any more evidence, just made more statements. Kindly correct me if I am wrong.
I posted the evidence I have. Why would I hold back evidence to post it later? Seems pointless. Assuming I get hold of the April 2003 return (hopefully in the Autumn), I'll post a follow up to show what happened with this stock, and any money made from it.
Finally, here's a quote from the University of California, at http://www.altriameanstobacco.com/
In January of 2003, Philip Morris Companies officially changed its name to the Altria Group, Inc., claiming that the change was to clarify the relationships between the parent corporation and the operating companies. This site is created to show the public the REAL reasons for this change: to hide the “taint” of tobacco and attempt to restore a corporate image brought low by decades of deception and death.
As researchers at the University of California, San Francisco, we studied Philip Morris's own internal company documents to learn more about why this change was planned and undertaken. Our findings were published in the American Journal of Public Health (April, 2003, Vol. 93, #4). Although Philip Morris had already purchased the rights to the URLs altriasucks.com and altriakills.com, altriameanstobacco.com is here to help other researchers, community activists, and the public develop counterstrategies in the face of this Philip Morris/Altria public relations ploy.
For more than a decade, Philip Morris planned this renaming and restructuring in order to distance itself from the ever-increasing liability of selling tobacco, a product that kills more than a third of its long-term users. As part of this strategy, Philip Morris hopes to be perceived as an outstanding corporate citizen by increasing its philanthropy under the name of Altria. But don't be deceived. Don't allow Philip Morris to win by corporate sleight of hand. Accepting gifts from Altria is the same thing as accepting gifts from Philip Morris: it allows the company to buy legitimacy and respectability while ignoring its starring role in the deaths of millions worldwide every year-over 400,000 in the United States alone.
Philip Morris/Altria also now claims it is trying to be “responsible” by acknowledging on its website that cigarettes are addictive and dangerous—ending decades of denial. A genuinely responsible company, faced with its role in the deaths of millions, would—at minimum—stop marketing this addictive product that would not be allowed on the market if introduced today.
This website also provides resources to help you do your own research on the tobacco industry and its activities, including links to online libraries where you can search the internal company documents of Philip Morris, R.J. Reynolds, Lorillard, Brown and Williamson, and American Tobacco Company, plus the Tobacco Institute and others. See tobacco documents research sites for more information and links.
I believe that this effectively disposes of the idea that just because Philip Morris now has a nice new name and sells some non-tobacco products, an investment into the Group is free from the taint of tobacco.
Expatbrit
