by PointBlank 13 Replies latest jw friends
To those in the know,
Would someone be so kind as to catch me up on the current disfellowship policy? How exactly are the rank and file being instructed to treat family members who are DF'ed? I know it changes with the wind. The last I heard, it was somewhat more reasonable. Has that changed?
I appreciate the help.
PB
Point Blank I will be blunt. All DF'd and DA'd are to be given the same respect and consideration that any reasonable person would give to a big pile of dog sh** found on a sidewalk. Simple rules for simple minds.
They are back to the hard line on our treatment. Even to the point of infering in the August KM that eating with a DF'd relative living in the same household is perhaps not desirable for the truely faithful.
Loris
Got that right . They even tried to bring that bull sh#$t into my home with my mother in law. Not her babe come back when you can talk to me
Last I heard about (8 months ago) was that I am to seriously let my daughter know that I disapprove with her life and ideas.
Officially we are living in the same house, but in fact in separate houses.
I am "allowed" to speak with her but "they" expected me to ignore her most of the time.
No need to tell you that I just do what I want, visiting her, eating with her (out of the door) generally everything "they" don't want me to do so. But they also know that they can't stop me.
One time we were together in a restaurant. I was greeted with enthusiasm and she was ignored - first I did'nt noticed - later I told him, when he saw me and my daughter together, when he was not polite enough to say hallo to her, he has to ignore me too. ( he blushed)
I don't know if that was helpful, but the last time we visited (together) a flower-shop owned by a JW whose wive does no longer attent meetings (due to the shunning of her DF-ed parents) and both - he and she and their daughters -all JW's - just normally talked to Viv.
It has been our experience that each family has its own policy. Some are very strict and some are very easy going with the df'd family member.
I think much depends on your culture and your family style. I know of a Hispanic family that refused to cut off their df'd adult son and although they never ate with him, they still talked to him and welcomed him at their home. My mother is very elderly and my brother is df'd (for 24 years). She often says "he is my son, and I will never turn my back on him". She has been a JW since 1950 so has her own way of seeing the counsel.
So, although the WT and the KM say one thing, as long as no one knows, they often do as they please.
From the WTS internal publication "Kingdom Ministry" for August 2002.
"Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped"
1. The bond between family members can be very strong. This brings a test upon a Christian when a marriage mate, a child, a parent, or another close relative is disfellowshipped or has disassociated himself from the congregation. (Matt. 10:37) How should loyal Christians treat such a relative? Does it make a difference if the person lives in your house hold? First, let us review what the Bible says on this subject, the principles of which apply equally to those who are disfellowshipped and to those who disassociate themselves.
2. How to Treat Expelled Ones: God's Word commands Christians not to keep company or fellowship with a person who has been expelled from the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man....Remove the wicked man from among yourselves." (1 Cor. 5:11, 13) Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled ones] be to you as a man of the nations and as a tax collector." Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesu was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones. --See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.
3.This means that loyal Christians do not have spiritual fellowship with anyone who has been expelled from the congregation. But more is involved. God's Word states that we should 'not even eat with such a man.' (1 Cor. 5:11) Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theatre or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.
4. What about speaking with a disfellowshipped person? While the Bible does not cover every possible situation, 2 John 10 helps us to get Jehovah's view of matters: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him." Commenting on this, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 25, says "A simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowhipped person?"
5. Indeed, it is just as page 31 of the same issue of The Watchtower states: "The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshipped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God;....sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."
6. In the Immediate Household: Does this mean that Christians living in the same household with a disfellowshipped family member are to avoid talking to, eating with, and associating with that one as they go about their daily activities? The Watchtower of April 15, 1991, in the footnote on page 22, states: "If in a Christian's household there is a disfellowshipped relative, that one would still be part of the normal, day-to-day household dealings and activites." Thus, it would be left to members of the family to decide on the extent to which the disfellowshipped family member would be included when eating or engaging in other household activites. And yet, they would not want to give brothers with him they associate the impression that everything is the same as it was before the disfellowshipping occurred.
7. However, The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, page 28, points out regarding the disfellowshipped or disassociated person: "Former spiritual ties have been completely severed. This is true even with respect to his relatives, including those within his immediate family circle....That will mean changes in the spiritual fellowship that may have existed in the home. For example, if the husband is disfellowshipped, his wife and children will not be comfortable with him conducting a family Bible study or leading in Bible reading and prayer. If he wants to say a prayer, such as at mealtime, he has a right to do so in his own home. But they can silently offer their own prayers to God. (Prov. 28:9; Ps. 119:145,146) What if a disfellowshipped person in the home wants to be present when the family reads the Bible together or has a Bible study? The others might let him be present to listen if he will not try to teach them or share his religious ideas."
8. If a minor child living in the home is disfellowshipped, Christian parents are still responsible for his upbringing. The Watchtower of November 15, 1988, page 20, states: "Just as they will continue to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter, they need to instruct and discipline him in line with God's Word. (Proverbs 6:20-22; 29:17) Loving parents may thus arrange to have a home Bible study with him, even if he is disfellowshipped. Mabye he will derive the most corrective benefit from their studying with him alone. Or they may decide that he can continue to share in the family study arrangement."--See also The Watchtower of October 1, 2001, pages 16-17.
9. Relatives Not in the Household: "The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if they were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum.--See also The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 29-30.
10. The Watchtower addresses another situation that can arise: "What if a close relative, such as a son or a parent who does not live in the home, is disfellowshipped and subsequently wants to move back there? The family could decide what to do depending on the situation. For example, a disfellowshipped parent may be sick or no longer able to care for himself financially or physically. The Christian children have a Scriptural and moral obligation to assist. (1 Tim. 5:8) .... What is done may depend on factors such as the parent's true needs, his attitude and the regard the head of the household has for the spiritual welfare of the household."--The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 28-9.
11. As for a child, the same article continues: "Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into their home for a time a disfellowshipped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances. Has a disfellowshipped son lived on his own, and is no unable to do so? Or does he want to move back primarily because it would be an easier life? What about his morals and attitude? Will he bring 'leaven' into the home?--Gal. 5:9."
12. Benefits fo Being Loyal to Jehovah: Cooperating with the Scriptual arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial. It preserves the cleanness of the congregation and distinguishes us as upholders of the Bible's high moral standards. (1 Pet. 1:14-16) It protects us from corrupting influences. (Gal. 5:7-9) It also affords the wrongdoer an oppotunity to benefit fully from the discipline received, which can help him to produce "peaceable fruit, namely righteousness."--Heb. 12:11.
13. After hearing a talk at a circuit assembley, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immeditately after the assembley, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized.
14. Loyally upholding the disfellowshipping arrangement outlined in the Scriptures demonstrates our love for Jehovah and provides and answer to the one who is taunting Him. (Prov. 27:11) In turn, we can be assured of Jehovah's blessing, King David wrote regarding Jehovah: "As for his statutes, I shall not turn aside from them. With someone loyal you will act in loyalty."--2 Sam. 22:23, 26.
Questions:
1. What situation can test a Christian's Loyalty?
2. According to the Bible, how are Christians to treat those expelled from the congregation?
3,4. What sort of fellowship with disfellowshipped and disassociated people is forbidden?
5. When disfellowshipped, what does a person forfeit?
6. Is a Christian required to cut off all association with a disfellowshipped relative living in the same household? Explain?
7. How does spirtual fellowship within the home change when a family member is disfellowshipped?
8. What responsibility do Christian parents have toward a minor disfellowshipped child living in the home?
9. To what extent should a Christian have contact with a disfellowshipped relative living outside the home?
10, 11. What will a Christian consider before allowing a disfellowshipped relative to move in the home?
12. What are some benefits to the disfellowshipping arrangement?
13. What adjustment did one family make, and with what result?
14. Why should we loyally support the disfellowshipping arrangement?
This makes my chest tight just to think about. I really am beginning to hate these people.
Jesus' words recorded at Matthew 18:17 also bear on the matter: "Let [the expelled ones] be to you as a man of the nations and as a tax collector."
Well I guess the boys at Bethel don't know their ass from a whole in the ground. Anyone who can read the bible, knows full well that Jesus made himself a friend of the tax collectors and the worst of sinners. He set a new precedent among the Jews by accepting and associating with the tax collectors. He ate with them (Mark 2:16), He offered salvation to them (Luke 19:9), and He even chose a tax collector (Matthew) as one of His twelve disciples (Matt 9:9).
Jesus' hearers well knew that the Jews of that day had no fraternization with Gentiles and that they shunned tax collectors as outcasts. Jesus was thus instructing his followers not to associate with expelled ones. --See The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 18-20.
Like I said, these guys must really think people are stupid. Yes of course the Jews of Jesus' time shunned tax collectors---because they were instructed by their wonderful leaders, the Pharisees, to do so. The very fact that Jesus went against what the Pharisees did, and openly ate with these "condemned" people, clearly tells us that these religious leaders were WRONG, WRONG, WRONG......just the the morons that run Bethel today.......how do they explain scriptures like this????
I want to thank all of you that responded to my question. A former sister (friend of mine) was disfellowshipped and living out of state from her children. The oldest son is married with two children. In the beginning he told his mother that he had talked to the elders about her visiting and they told him that it was up to his own conscience. This past weekend she flew to Indiana to see her grandchildren. JW neighbors started asking questions about the strange car in the driveway. They were told who it was and the son was called in for a "meeting."
He was told in no uncertain terms to get rid of her or he could be disfellowshipped. The mother was devastated, the grandkids were crying and screaming for her to stay, and the whole thing turned into a nightmare.
I think I'll send her some of this information so that she'll at least know what their current policy is. Thanks so much.
PB
Mary, the reply from the other side would be very simple, something you overlooed, that the tax collectors etc. had never been in association with Christ, had never been "Christian" before. He mingled with them, ate with them, preached to them. But what if they had become dispiles and then had committed the same things? Did He not tell these people to go away but "sin no more"? And did he not condemn Jude?
Don't get me wrong, I am defending nothing - but your line of argumentation has no relevance to the treatment of df'ed people, has it?
It's the speaking with two tongues, one used for the ones you want to become members, and one used for those already in.
