To AlanF and others! What legal means can be used to stop JC's?

by cyberguy 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    To Allan F. and others, what legal means did you use to stop Judicial Committees from DF’ng you? Since I was baptized as a teenager, can I use this to my advantage, since I was not of "legal" age to enter into a contract with the Watchtower Society (I was baptized in 1973)? Also, in my 30’s I was appointed an "elder." Does this make it a little more difficult to use the "baptized-as-a-teenager" defense?

    Thank you in advance. I’m sure there are others out there with the same problem I have! I want-out, but I'm fearful of the repercussions and the loss of my relationship with my fleshly brother (an JW elder). So, I'm trying to do the slow-fade-thing! Once again, thank you so much for consideration.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Hi cyberguy,

    : To Allan F. and others, what means did you use to stop Judicial Committees from DF’ng you?

    When a couple of elders called one day to inform me that, because they had heard I was getting remarried, they needed to talk to me about "keeping the congregation clean", at first I told them that I was never a member of their congregation (which was true; I merely lived in their territory), and that I wouldn't talk to them and they should bugger off. Then I realized that this might not be enough to make them leave me alone, so the next day I called one elder late, after the KMS/Service meeting and had a little discussion with him. I told him that I was no threat to his congregation since I most certainly didn't want contact with any of them. I also reminded him that I was never a member of his congregation, since I had moved into their territory when I had already been inactive for two years, and so they had no authority over me, by their own rules. Then I laid it on the line. I literally commanded him and his buddies to make no announcements to anyone, or even discuss anything about my status or lack thereof as a JW, publicly or privately. I said that if I found out they had violated my command, I would do everything legally necessary to protect my good name in the community. I asked him if he understood what that meant, and he said he did. Then I said, "If you leave me alone, I will leave you alone. Deal?" He agreed to abide by my wishes. That was the end of it.

    : Since I was baptized as a teenager, can I use this to my advantage, since I was not of "legal" age to enter into a contract with the Watchtower Society (I was baptized in 1973)? Also, in my 30’s I was appointed an "elder." Does this make it a little more difficult to use the "baptized-as-a-teenager" defense?

    So far as I know, yes. From what I understand, the courts will say that when you became an adult, you reaffirmed the decision to join that you had made as a minor. I believe that this is part of standard contract law.

    : Thank you in advance. I’m sure there are others out there with the same problem I have! I want-out, but I'm fearful of the repercussions and the loss of my relationship with my fleshly brother (an JW elder). Once again, thank you for consideration.

    There are plenty in similar circumstances, locked in by the nasty repercussions of leaving. What you do, and what might even be successful, depends greatly on the personalities of the particular elders you must deal with. Not all elders would have been cowed as the one I threatened was. Only you can decide what to do. You could have a one-on-one discussion with a single elder -- you don't want them to have "two witnesses" to gang up on you and tell lies -- and do something like I did. But of course, word would probably get out to your relatives one way or another. That would precipitate the very crisis you want to avoid.

    But I must ask: why do you feel the need to do something right now? Are you already on the hot seat? If not, it might be better to just stay away from meetings and all JW-related activities and let it set until they forget about you.

    AlanF

  • cyberguy
    cyberguy

    Oh yea! I’m definitely on the "hot-seat," Alan! Elders are showing up very frequently, 1-2 times per week; they’re driving me "nuts," especially since I’ve been neglecting the meetings as of late! Anyway, I ‘m going to try my best and keep my BIG MOUTH SHUT (for the sake of not being DA’d; my brother is still in the organization—I don’t want to loose him)! However, it’s not always that easy, especially when I know that I’ve been violated (that’s a strong word, but it actually may not be strong enough)! Anyway, thank you so much for your kind and considerate response to this matter, both previously and now. I may have to give you another phone soon to help me deal with the current situation! I hope you don’t mind; you’re especially a very kind, mild, considerate, person (all the "Christian" qualities that Witnesses are suppose to have) and I’m sure you understand what I’m going through! In fact, I would suggest to anyone that needs help, to give you a call (hope you don’t mind me saying-so, and especially I hope your wife doesn’t mind—I don’t want to impose on your family).

    Thanks again, Alan, for just being there!

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Sorry to hear you're on the hot seat! But do give me a buzz whenever you feel like it.

    AlanF

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Hi cyberguy,

    Tell them that you are DEPRESSED and that you don't want to talk about it right now. The WTS hasn't started disfellowshipping people for depression - yet.

  • Euphemism
    Euphemism

    I'm not in the hot seat yet, but if it should come to it, I have thought about using the depression line. There would be some honesty to it... dealing with this whole situation has certainly been an emotional strain!

    One thought I had, however, was that if a lot of us start doing that, it might make life more difficult for loyal dubs who suffer from depression... it might cause them to be viewed with suspicion.

    I'm not saying that automatically rules out the option... I guess I was just wondering if I'm the only one who was concerned about that.

  • minimus
    minimus

    If you tell them that you do not want them calling you or seeing you with the frequency they have been doing because you do not wish to discuss matters due to "personal reasons",they should leave you alone, at least for a time. Remember, the more you express, the more they have on you. If you tell them that you are not in the position to discuss things with them (and you can blame it on illness, depression, private matters that you are not at liberty to talk to them about), they cannot stalk you. If they try to do so, I would say something like,"Oh my, I told you brothers that I have some personal matters that I cannot discuss with you and I feel like you're trying to stalk me or something...." (Laughingly, of course)......Then reiterate in a serious way and with firmness that if there is something that you feel that you need to talk to them about that they can be assured that you will approach them and then thank them for their concern and understanding. THEN, if they try to put pressure on you, tell them that the subject is off limits and to please stop calling.

  • jimbob
    jimbob

    Hello Cyberguy. I'm not sure if this will help, but I thought I'd tell you what worked for my wife and I.

    We both did the slow fade thing, but once we decided to stop completely, we had the elders banging on our door on the weekends. We never answered it of course. And they would try to call, but we had caller ID at the time, (got rid of our home phone completely now and just have cells) so we didn't answer the phone. But they started coming by unannounced on weekend mornings (cause it was convenient for them since they have to go peddle books anyway) so I decided to take this approach:

    On a Tuesday evening when I knew the PO would be gone, I called his house and left him a message not for anyone to stop by our house at all anymore or to call us. I told him I knew where the kingdom hall was and I knew where he lived.....and if things changed for us, we'd let him know. I did tell him I didn't appreciate him or others coming by here unannounced. I told him that he should respect our wishes and not bother us again.

    And that was about 10 months ago, and to this day, we haven't been bothered by him or anyone else from that congregation. We leave them alone, and they leave us alone. I'm not saying this will work in every situation, but for us it's worked great.

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Alan,

    From what I understand, the courts will say that when you became an adult, you reaffirmed the decision to join that you had made as a minor. I believe that this is part of standard contract law.

    That is compelling. It's like a marriage, you agree to the union, publicise your agreement by getting engaged, formalise and legalise it by the public wedding ceremony and then consummate it by getting fu..ked. So many parallels.

    Serious point though. Many months, or even years, after the wedding, despite whatever 'reaffirmation' has occurred during the marriage, how would a partner stand if they subsequently discover that their spouse had only succeeded in bringing the relationship to the point of marriage by dishonest means? What if they'd lied about their past? About previous relationships they'd had? About other commitments they'd failed to honour? Even about past allegations of abuse? Get the idea?

    You'd get an anullment - no problem.

    Something to think about.

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    You're absolutely right, Nicolau. Unfortunately, the courts -- where it counts -- have not yet seen dishonest cult recruiting methods in this light. I hope that some day some people start winning cases against destructive cults on this basis. Constitutional guarantees of freedom of religion need to have limits, as the recent case of Vicki Boer has so clearly shown. The limits need to be at the line where corporate religious rights begin stepping on individual rights.

    AlanF

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