More light from the source!
Spiritism
by Beans 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Mystery
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9 Why is such a firm stand (DF) appropriate even today? …….
Well, reflect on the severe cutting off mandated in God's Law to Israel. In various serious matters, willful violators were executed. (Leviticus 20:10; Numbers 15:30, 31) When that happened, others, even relatives, could no longer speak with the dead lawbreaker
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Can’t you just see them sitting there nodding their head in agreement. “Yes, yes I understand, you cant’ talk to a dead person so…. You can’t talk to a DF’ed person either. I see the parallel in the law”.
“In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him…..
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Since it is against the law to just kill them; shunning isn’t so bad!
The more I read and have learned the angrier and angrier I am at my father. He was an extremely intelligent man. But I guess the elder headgear fitted him perfectly. The pedestal I had him on is coming down bit by bit.
We argued discussed this over and over and over and over. He always made me feel I was wrong by not agreeing with shunning. I realize now, he just said the same thing every time. I would go and for different ways to show him it was wrong… he would just repeat the same scriptures……. Every time. -
Mr. Kim
What is currently stated and posted (July 07, 2003) is more or less true in reference to the JWs. Some of the information is a little twisted, and the current JW attitude brings a lot of extra baggage to pound the JWs for self-righteous attitudes, hypocrisy, presumptuousness,etc...................
However, isn't Almighty God, the Angels, and the Holy spirit; just that?--All is in spirit form until there is a desire to take a specific form or design.
Much of the realm of God is unknown to humans and people can only speculate. However, there will be a time when all questions and knowledge will be known...............................
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heathen
It does look like the WT went beyond what is written . The aid to understanding says spiritism is the belief that the spirits of the human dead communicate with the living through a spirit medium . The greek word pharmakeia is used and they go on to explain this means the use of medicine,drugs,spells; then , poinsoning and sorcery . In sorcery ,the use of drugs whether simple or potent was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers with the provision of various charms , amulets etc. professedly designed to keep the applicant or patient from the attention and power of demons ,but actually to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.
The WT has never claimed to actually conjure these spirits using any of the information I just posted ,what they do claim tho is that the anointed remnant at this time are being resurected and are being used by God to communicate to the WT the interpretation of scripture and prophesy . This too is going beyond what is written and cannot be proven thru the bible .
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peacefulpete
Didn't one of the quotes say "just HOW the angels communicate to the agents on earth is not for us to ask." There is no way of denying that the official postion is that they do claim to have some mysterious yet powerful connection to the spirit world, and this is the directing force behind the doctrine and policy making. Most anyone would call that a claim of "inspiration". If this is not scary and cultlike it is at least delusional.
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heathen
Interesting topic and good points being made. The WT could easily be guilty of the claims of spiritism as they are claiming the very thing the catholic church claims, that the saints can be called on to intervene even tho the WT does not pray to saints like the catholic church does.The holy spirit is the only thing that Jesus promised to his apostles . People would be filled with holy spirit not that spirits of the saints would communicate with the living like I'm reading in beans post .I never knew they made these claims .
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mizpah
Does anyone remember what happened in the congregations when the Watchtower came out with a series of articles on "spiritism" some years ago? In our congregation everyone started to claim that the "demons" were the cause of many of their personal problems. So, upon the suggestion of the Watchtower that demons could enter a home through a gift given or a item bought, many began to go through their homes and throw out those things that were suspicous. Many items were burned to destroy the "demon influence."
In one case, a pioneer sister asked another sister to sew a coat that she had been given. When the sister was sewing, she claimed that the needle would not penetrate the coat or would fly out of her hands. Of course, it could only be a demon!
Soon others in the congregations were blaming everything on the demons. (Shades of Salem!) In time, the Watchtower recommended caution. And eventually things became normal again.
It seems that Jehovah's Witnesses often over reacted to many of the articles in the Watchtower and Awake. Does anyone recall the aluminum pot scare or Coca Cola warning? How about the articles on sexual practices? But the reaction to the articles on Demonism was one of the strangest of all!
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Noumenon
I don't see that claiming to be directed by God and the Angels constitutes spiritism. Every religions claims to have some divine guidance of some sort or another. That doesn't constitute spiritism at all, and is just fishing for mud to throw at the Org by those hating it.
I do however agree that they are wrong to say that resurrected anointed ones (who I do not believe are resurrected to heaven yet) could be somehow conveying truths etc to members of the Organisation today. That is definitely off and bordering on spiritism.
Actually I think the truth about the condition of the dead is one of the greatest truths JW's have to share. The quotes put up on this thread from that website is ignoring the beautiful white sheet and focusing only on the tiny speck on it.
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outoftheorg
Noumenon, I also looked at the sheet and it was bright white with the one little dot you described.
Then I thought to turn the sheet over and looked at the side, the wbts does not display. I found splotches of red. It is the blood of children and mothers and fathers that obeyed the wbts demands of no blood fractions. They are now acceptable. These splotches were ringed with the stain of tears. I looked further and found more blood due to not taking organ transplants, that are now acceptable. There were more tears.
I also found stains of tears and lost opportunities and lives, due to brothers being in prison for 5 to 10 or even more years, due to the forbiding of them accepting alternate service instead of military service.Now it is a matter of conscience and one can do this. I saw massive tear stains and signs of lost lives and loves.
Then I found large seminal stains, due to the fornication of the wbts, with those it condemned with vicious statements. Their ten years in bed with the United Nations, their years in bed with corporations that produce the military weapons, that the wbts condemns, their ownership of stock in a tobacco company. There is the stench of a filthy sheet. It reeks of the smell of a dogs vomit.
Then I found the whole sheet, to be darkened with the stain of dishonesty, caused by their false prophecies and their punishing those that disagreed, even after their prophecies failed, repeatedly.
I am sorry brother, but they only showed you one side of their bed sheet.
They desperatly want to conceal this side of the sheet, from its captives and the world.
The sheet would not come clean in the strongest of detergents. It was finally burned.There is a rumor that the fire came out of heaven.
Outoftheorg.
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gumby
*** Watchtower 1931 November 1 p.327 ***
[Not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]The Watchtower is not the instrument of an man or any set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men. No man's opinion is expressed in the Watchtower.
[Emphasis Added]
Gumby