What Zionists really think...examples of hate speech.

by reporter 24 Replies latest social current

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    Ah, Realist, you're a braver man than I... I think if I was from Austria, I wouldn't touch the subject of Zionism with a ten foot barge pole. I was similarly amased when Jörg Haider was let near government, alnog with many Europeans. One would think Austrian's would, on grounds of taste alone, avoid such a thing.

    It's a difficult issue to say the least. I'm deeply suspicious of the hacknied conspiracy theories regarding Zionism. Yet Israel are an appalling violator of human rights (as is the Palestinian Authority), the difference being Israel gets several billion dollars a year in aid from the USA.

    The bias shown until late has done more damage to global politics and the trust countries have in the USA than anyhting else I think... well, appart from Waepons of Mysterous DIsappearance, but that's another thread.

    To see another side to anti-zionism, go here and look for threads by someone called rizzo;

    http://www.jehovahswitnessonline.com/index.php

  • searchfothetruth
    searchfothetruth

    Heres an interesting website: Jews against Zionism.

    http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

  • Realist
    Realist

    abbadon,

    i was born some 30 years after the war was over. i am not in the least sympathetic towards nationalism. and therefore i don't see any reason why i should avoid pointing out idiocy, racism or plain BS just because it comes from a certain source.

    regarding Jörg Haider - fisrt of all his party gained votes over the years not because of nationism but because of the corruption in the other parties. we had a socialist chancellor for about 30 years and people were just plain tired of the BS that the socialists pulled. (by the way, Haider lost 2/3 of the votes i the last election and stays at 10% right now)

    secondly, he stated things that are with the exception of germany common in all other countries (i may mention fortuyn in holland, bush in the US, etc. etc.). his condemnation was initiated by the austria press (largely in the hands of the socialist) in order prevent him gaining votes. it did not work in the end because he revealed too many problems within the old administration.

    lastly, germany and austria took a lot of beating (in party rightly so) for what happened before and during the war. but with all due respect after 58 years and considering what the allies did it is high time to put an end to digging out the nazi stuff in every discussion regarding israel.

  • czarofmischief
    czarofmischief

    No, Israel should not exist. But it does. Deal with it. Yes, the Jews are just as guilty of genocide, oppression and everything as anybody else. The Palestinians will continually be used by their Arab "brothers" to wage a proxy war against Israel. The Jews use the fundamentalist Christian Americans to defend them. It's all crap. I hate the whole question.

    Nuke Jerusalem and Mecca and Rome and have done with it. evacuate both cities and then destroy them. Burn our religious bridges. We are alone, and there is no help coming from God, except through the individual decision to become a better person.

    It would be nice, ideally, to send all the extremists into some kind of bubble where they could kill each other all day and not hurt anybody else.

    Oh wait, that would be hell, wouldn't it?

    Ever think that maybe we were sent here because of something we've done in another world, and this planet is the bubble where we can do whatever we want to each other with no eternal consequences, just the misery and pain that naturally result from such exercises of power?

    Maybe this earth IS hell? I mean, think about it, insoluble problems, an overabundance of resources but a complete inability to distribute them because of our own folly, eternal conflict, unending strife, horrible lives where death is a mercy... sheesh, I just hope the next world is better run where I can do theater without all of this political crap.

    CZAR

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    The pictures you see above are the other side of the story that you do not see published in Jewish owned media. How sad that most people decide to live off what the media tells them, promoting the Israeli cause, rather than coming to an acurate conclusion themselves

    I can't say if my conclusion is accurate; and I have no eloquent words or slogans to support it....suffice to say that I would like to see Palestine returned to the Palestinians.

    Rosemarie

  • avishai
    avishai

    Gee, guys, I think if native americans were blowing themselves up in public schools, busses, etc., some of you guys might react too. Killing civilians left & right. Have some perspective, folks, most of the general public on both sides don't like what their gov. are doing, & I could pull up just as many f*cked up comments by PLO folks, or hamas, etc, things like "We will not stop until every jew & christian are exterminated from the face of the earth, praise be to Allah.

    Nice spin, reporter. Are you sure your not JJrizzo?

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Avashai

    Many palestinians were and are christians. The zionists want them all clensed out of the territory.

    SS

  • avishai
    avishai

    SS,

    So? I don't care if the worship the holy trinity of Ernie, Bert, & Snufalupagus. What does that have to do w/ anything? There are also lots of christians & secular "Jews" living in Israel, & some fanatical elements, like the Hasids probably want them out, too. Most "palestinians" are Muslim. Some are Christian. When was the last time you heard of a Christian palestinian blowing themselves & others to pieces?

    Now, in Yugoslavia, the christians were probably the aggressors. They suck. They were genocidal a-holes. I'm just pointing out there are fanatics in every movement, including this board, I'm sure.

    To continually single out the ambiguous term "zionists" is myopic. To only single out the "palestinians" is too. Some of these posts smack of bigotry & ignorance on both sides.

    Fanatics suck, period. Christian, jew or satanist. That is why most jw's suck so bad. Get it, everyone?

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Its ironic how they the Jews were persecuted during the second world war but think nothing of persecuting someone else but I guess they feel that that is their God given right.

    Will

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    Avashai

    Zionist, to me, is someone who puts the state of israel first, above all else. Is there some other meaning to the word?

    Here is a bit of history about zionist destruction of palestinian christians, as written by israel shamir, who, i suppose could be called an anti-zionist jew.

    ---

    Galilee Flowers

    February 25, 2001
    When in 1543, the typhoon-blown Portuguese schooners approached the shores of Japan, the astonished sailors could not believe their eyes: on a warm spring day, the tropical island ahoy was buried under snow. They were witness to one of the real Seven Wonders of the World, the flowers of sakura, the wild cherry of Japan. As soon as the benevolent heaven bestows this seasonal gift to earth, the Japanese forget their wives and kids, their duties, employers and bills; they just sit under the trees, drink sake wine and write poems, short and sharp as swords.

    That is why, these days, leaving behind our man-made troubles, I sit under the white cloud of a tree and watch the beautiful white and pink blossoms of almond trees covering the hills of Galilee. These lovely blossoms are our version of the Japanese sakura, and a chance to indulge in the custom of flower viewing. A honey aroma wafts through the air; the skies are crystal blue. Yellow daisies dance on the lush green grass at the base of these almond wonders, interspersed by violet cyclamen and red anemones. The glorious backdrop is provided by the huge snow mass of Jebel al Sheikh (Mt Hermon). Palestine is a sister to Japan. These two hilly lands are home to stubborn mountain folk, devoted to their customs and ways.

    For all the similarities in the landscape, there are differences. The hill we sit on, all white like Jaffa sea surf, is the ruin of a village. If we were in Japan, it would be alive and humming. The village of Birim has been dead for fifty years. It is beautiful even in death, like Ophelia floating down the stream in the pre-Raphaelite painting of Millais. It was not ruined by war. Its Christian inhabitants were expelled from their houses well after the 1948 war. They were told to leave for a week or two, for ‘security’ reasons. They had no option but to believe the Israeli officers and move out. Their village was dynamited, their church surrounded by barbed wire. They went to Israeli court, they went to the government, commissions were appointed and petitions signed. Nothing helped. Ever since, for 50 years, they have lived in the nearby villages and on Sundays they continue to visit their church. Their lands were seized by their Jewish neighbors, but they still bring their dead to be buried in the church graveyard, under the sign of the cross.

    Until the arrival of the Israeli army, this ruined village with its orphaned church was the home of the rural Christians of Birim who, for centuries of Moslem rule, lived in peace with their Moslem neighbors of Nebi Yosha and with the old Sephardi Jewish community of nearby Safed. This little Guernica in the Galillee can single-handedly undermine the myth of a ‘Judeo-Christian’ civilization opposing a ‘monstrous’ Islam. This myth lays at the foundation of the Christian Zionist movement; among its fervent supporters, one can find a friend of Mark Rich and a newly minted New York citizen, W. J. Clinton.

    The problems of the Middle East are ugly enough without the current Moslem-bashing. The pro-Israeli pundits of the New York Times quote the blood-curling verses on Jihad, retell the old traditions of religious wars and persecutions, to ‘prove’ Islam’s cruelty and intolerance. They are repeated by a pleasant upper-class Jewish lady from London, Barbra Amiel. In a sotto voce, she writes about ‘exclusivist’ Islam and Jewish ‘moderation’. In order to incite hatred, Israel’s lobby works all the ropes. Before the rise of Israel, Arab sheiks were depicted as romantic heroes in movies acted by Rudolf Valentino. Nowadays, the pro-Israel producers of Hollywood turn out propaganda films on ill-shaven Moslem terrorists with the subtlety of Edward D. Wood, Jr. This new prejudice is amplified a hundredfold by the Christian Zionist Congress, claiming ‘protection for Christians of Palestine from the Moslem (?!) persecution’. These people obviously have not walked among the ruins of Birim.

    Another email comes into my laptop, this time from Gaza. An American girl, Alison Weir from San Francisco evades Israeli bullets, comforts the scared Palestinian kids, and writes: “The problem is when you know the truth, it is far too cruel, far too diametrically opposite what we used to think and what everyone still thinks to express. The lie is too big, the repression too complete, the Palestinians' lives too horrible to write about reasonably”.

    Well, Alison is right. We face a huge lie, an anti-Moslem blood libel, and it is time to stop it. I do not think that the problems of Middle East have anything to do with religion. But if the supporters of Israel want to wake up the sleeping ghost of religious intolerance, to incite Christians against Moslems, let us audit their balance.

    If these Christian Zionists care for Christ, not only for Zion, let them learn what Jews and Moslems feel towards Christ. Rami Rozen expressed the Jewish tradition in a long feature in a major Israeli newspaper Haaretz[i]: “Jews feel towards Jesus today what they felt in 4 c or in the Middle Ages… It is not fear, it is hatred and despise”. “For centuries, Jews concealed from Christians their hate to Jesus, and this tradition continues even now”. “He is revolting and repulsive”, said an important modern religious Jewish thinker. Rozen writes that this “repulsion passed from the observant Jews to the general Israeli public”.

    On Christmas Eve, according to a report in the Jerusalem local paper, Kol Ha-Ir[ii], Hassids customarily do not read holy books, as it could save Jesus from eternal punishment (the Talmud teaches that Jesus boils in hell[iii]). This custom was dying out, but Hassids of Habad, the fervent nationalists, brought it back to life. I still remember old Jews spitting while passing by a church, and cursing the dead, while passing by a Christian cemetery. Last year in Jerusalem, a Jew decided to refresh the tradition. He spat at Holy Cross, carried in the procession along the city. Police saved him from further trouble, but the court fined him $50, despite his claim that he just fulfilled his religious duty.

    Last year, the biggest Israeli tabloid Yedioth Aharonoth reprinted in its library the Jewish anti-Gospel, Toledoth Eshu, compiled in the Middle Ages. It is the third recent reprint, including one in a newspaper. If the Gospel is the book of love, Toledoth is the book of hate for Christ. The hero of the book is Judas. He captures Jesus by polluting his purity. According to Toledoth, the conception of Christ was in sin, the miracles of Jesus were witchcraft, his resurrection but a trick.

    Joseph Dan, a Professor of Jewish mysticism in Hebrew University in Jerusalem, writing on the death of Jesus stated: “The modern Jewish apologists, hesitantly adopted by the church, preferred to put the blame on Romans. But the medieval Jew did not wish to pass the buck. He tried to prove that Jesus had to be killed, and he was proud of killing Him. The Jews hated and despised Christ and Christians”. Actually, adds Prof. Dan, there is little place to doubt that the Jewish enemies of Jesus caused his execution.

    Even today, Jews in Israel refer to Jesus by the demeaning word Yeshu (instead of Yeshua), meaning ‘Perish his name’. There is an ongoing argument, whether His name was turned into a swear word, or other way around. In a similar pun, the Gospel is called ‘Avon Gilaion’, the booklet of Sin. These are the endearing feeling of the friends of Christian Zionists towards Christ.

    What about Moslems? The Moslems venerate Christ. He is called ‘The Word of God”, “Logos”, Messiah, the Prophet and is considered “a Messenger of God”, along with Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. Many chapters of the Kor’an tell the story of Christ, his virgin birth and his persecution by Jews. His saintly mother is admired, and the Immaculate Conception is one of the tenets of Islam. The name of Christ glorifies the golden edifice of Haram a-Sharif. According to the Moslem faith, it was there that the founder of Islam met Jesus, and they prayed together. The Hadith, the Moslem tradition, says in the name of the prophet, ‘We do not forbid you to believe in Christ, we order you to”. Moslems identify their prophet with Paracletes, the Helper (Jn 14:16) whose coming was predicted by Jesus. They venerate places associated with the life of Jesus: the place of Ascension, the Tomb of Lazarus, the Holy Sepulchre are adjacent to a mosque and perfectly accessible by Christians.

    While Moslems do not consider Jesus – God, they proclaim him as the Messiah, the Anointed one, the Paradise Dweller. This religious idea, familiar to Nestorians and other early churches, but rejected by mainstream Christianity, opened the gates for those Jews, who could not part with the notion of strict monotheism. That is why many Palestinian Jews and Christians of the 7th century accepted Islam and became Palestinian Moslems. They remained in their villages, they did not depart for Poland or England, they did not learn Yiddish, they did not study the Talmud, but they continued to shepherd their flocks and plant almond trees, they remained faithful to their land and to the great idea of the fraternity of men.

    In the south of Hebron, in the ruins of Susiah, one can see how in the course of two centuries a synagogue slowly evolved into a mosque, as the population of nearby caves abandoned the exclusionary faith of Babylonian wizards and adopted Islam. These shepherds still live there, in the same caves. In the last year, the Israeli army has twice tried to expel them to provide more room for new settlers from Brooklyn.

    Why, in this season of blossoming almond trees, do I brood on the sensitive subject of Jewish and Moslem attitudes towards Christ? Because one has to stop the mills of hatred operated by Israel’s supporters. Because the “Judeo-Christian” code language is being used to justify the barbed wire around Birim’s Church and the tanks around Bethlehem. Because there is a duty to remove an obstacle from the path of the blind.

    The majority of the Christian Zionists are simple misled souls, people of good intentions but little knowledge. They think they ‘support Jews’, but they promote the Christ-hating spirit among the Jews. It was not in vain that a hero of the Zionist Bible, Exodus by Leon Uris, kept a poster in his room saying ‘We crucified Christ’. It was not in vain that an Israeli soldier on the roadblock of Bethlehem told me yesterday, ‘We starve the beasts’, referring to the native Christians of the city of Nativity. It was not in vain that the Gospel was burned on a stake in Israel, while anti-Gospel literature is widely spread; that new immigrant Jews embracing Christianity are persecuted and deported; that every preacher of the Christian faith in Israel can be sent to jail according to new anti-Christian laws; that Israeli archaeologists erase the Christian holy sites and memories off the face of the Holy Land.

    To the leaders of the Christian Zionists, who surely know these facts, but lead their innocent flock on the path of the Anti-Christ, I say, “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Christ to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone tied round his neck and be drowned in the deep sea” (Mt 18:6).

    To my Jewish brothers I say: the opinions of medieval Jews do not bind us. Every Jew can decide for himself, whether to pray for the destruction of the Gentiles or to share the blessing of the Holy Land with the villagers of Birim and Bethlehem. Within the Jewish people, there were always spiritual descendants of the prophets who wished to bring peace and blessing to all the children of Adam. As true as this almond blossom, in you the prophecy will be fulfilled: ‘All the nations of the earth will bless you’ (Deut. 7).

    --

    Here is one about how muslims and christians had been cohabiting.

    Olives of Aboud

    June 16, 2001
    As the CIA-brokered cease fire went into effect, I received an anxious call from the village of Aboud, on the western slopes of Samarian hills. The village was raided by the army, and two men were shot. Today I went there, to see the village and to feel the cease fire.

    Aboud is surrounded by the new Jewish settlements from all sides. A brand new Jewish road leads to the area. It forks off to Aboud some three miles away from the village, and there the road is blocked by cyclopean heaps of earth. We tried our luck at the other end, with the same result. Eventually we found a narrow dirt track the peasants broke in this morning, and drove in.

    Aboud is one of the prettiest Palestinian villages, strongly reminiscent of Tuscany. Its time-mellowed stone houses grow on the gentle hills. Vine climbs up their balconies, leafy fig trees provide shadow to its streets. The prosperity of this well-established village is seen in the spaciousness of the mansions, in the meticulously clean roads. The old men sit in a small and shady, walled enclosure, on the stone benches, like the aldermen of Ithaca gathered by young Telemachus. That is the biblical 'gate of the city', or a diwan. Kids bring them coffee and fresh fruits. Local people are not the refugees of Gaza and Deheishe; here, as in a time warp, one can see the Holy Land as it should and could be.

    Three millennia old Aboud received the faith of Christ from Christ himself, says the local tradition, and there is the church ready to prove it, one of the oldest on earth, built in the days of Constantine in the 4th century, or maybe even older, as some archaeologists claim. The church is a dainty thing, carefully restored and well taken care of. The Byzantine capitals of its columns bear the image of cross and palm branches. They recently discovered a plaque in old Aramaic script immured in the southern wall of the church.

    Aboud has more than one church: there is a Catholic, a Greek Orthodox and an American-built Church of God. There is also a new mosque, as Christians and Muslims of the Holy Land live together in great harmony. On December 17th all of them, the Muslims and the Christians, go to venerate the village patron saint, St Barbara. She was a local girl who fell in love with a young Christian and was baptized. It happened in the rough days of Roman emperor Diocletian, and she was martyred in the persecutions. The ruins of the oldest Byzantine church of St Barbara are still seen on a hill a mile away from the village. At the foothill, there is her burial cave, and there the peasants lit their candles and ask their wishes to be fulfilled.

    It is a good place to understand the complete lunacy of the prevailing Jewish view of Palestine as of the 'land without people' sparsely inhabited by the Arab nomad latecomers. Archaeologists have proven that this village was never destroyed or abandoned since the time immemorial, and our eyes agree with it. Age-old olive trees cover the hills, confirming the deep roots of Aboud and providing it with olive oil, its main staple food and source of livelihood.

    Just outside a village, there were two giant American-built Caterpillar bulldozers slowly devouring the olive trees. They were huge, covered from every side by armour plates. They appeared impregnable, like moving fortresses. They towered above the landscape as the mechanical monsters of Evil Empire attacking Ewocks in the Star Wars.

    The peasants stood on the heaps of earth blocking the entrance to the village and looked at the machines destroying their livelihood. They could not walk towards them, as they were not allowed to leave their village, their prison. There was a tent, and a few soldiers with a machinegun on the hill above the entrance, and they were there to keep the people in. Last night, on Sabbath eve, they opened fire on the villagers who ventured out, and wounded two men. The rest run back in for safety. Then the army went in, in their jeeps, driving through the village, met by stones of the kids. The Jewish settlers and soldiers sprayed windows and roofs with their bullets and drove away, apparently feeling their Shabbat duty fulfilled.

    I was allowed to cross the invisible line, as it was for the Palestinians only. There was an Israeli officer in a jeep, a wide American Hummer, who oversaw the devastation. Why do you do it, I asked, don't you know there is the cease fire? Say it to Arik (Sharon), he replied, we are just following orders. But he, and the other soldiers, and the bulldozer drivers were not despondent about these orders. These age-old trees meant nothing to them, as the village and two millennia old Church, and the people meant nothing to them. Just something to be devoured and destroyed.

    Palestine never was the deserted land the first Zionists claimed they found at their arrival. But it will become one, unless we stop these machines.

    -------

    More of israel shamirs historical vignets can be found here: http://www.israelshamir.net/

    SS

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit