Dont Use the Bible

by LovesDubs 3 Replies latest jw friends

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  LovesDubs

  ...when you are trying to get through to a JW. At least that has been my experience since Disassociating in 1997 and hitting the internet to speak to them. I have seen that mostly the JWs arent familiar with the Bible past what the Society has constantly hit them over the head with all their lives, the same tired scriptures, the same tired arguments. They will only dig in and run to their Reasoning From the Scriptures book and wont listen to a word you say if you start "proving the trinity" or whatever, throwing Jesus name around and pounding out scrip after scrip like a Born Again on crack. Good intentions dont cut it.

  I would like to hear what works successfully for all of you. How you have reached your loved ones and friends. I have always appealed to the things that they as JWs, do themselves and yet accuse and condemn others of doing as well. I appeal to the Human Rights issues, the FAMILY issues, the weighty responsibilities the Society imposes on them, the clanishness, the hypocrisy, the double standards, the constantly changing LIGHT, the profoundly weak history they have built an entire religion upon. Things they WONT see in the Kingdom Ministry. Things the Society DOESNT want them to think about nor see.

  I try to interject that doubt factor so that the next time they read an inane Watch Tower article about "building up a bank account in heaven by banking field service hours" they will sit up and say "WHAT???" instead of..."yeah THATS what I have to do...more more more..." All it takes is a tiny hole in that dike.

  I try to LISTEN to them. Allow them to vent, allow them to be angry like a child lashing out, but allow them to say things to you, but IMPORTANTLY you must KEEP THEIR CONFIDENCES so that they feel free to talk to you again. They tend to be angry at you first for "leaving Jehovah" and will condemn you through hissing teeth, but then come the emails, or in AOL, the IMs, allowing them privacy and often a softening of their stand...and then an outpouring of their own concerns. But we all know that while IN the Borg we could trust NO ONE not even our spouses to keep our confidences, and so we kept it all in. We have to be there for them, they are not the enemy here...the Society is. Being in this cult is an extremely emotional state...so is leaving an EMOTIONAL thing. Its not a cut and dry situation as we all know. Much baggage and fear comes out when they do. We have to convince them we will be there when they let go...and we DO catch them.

  I have found tho, that the minute I start quoting any scriptures, the door slams shut on them hearing anything else I have to say. Yes there will be a few who actually can be reached that way, but they are few and far between. I think we all know that we were not really Bible Students...but rather Watch Tower Students. We have to first rent in two the curtain which covers the Wizard of Oz and expose to them who they are really fearing and worshipping.

  What has worked for all of you?
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  mustang

  Hi L-D's,

  You are right. I grabbed the old burgundy, JW Concordance off the shelf once to dig up some long forgotten scripture to put my Old Man in his place. Lo and behold, but all that beep-beep gave me was those platitude scriptures that he had droned out over the years to preach me to death with!!! I suddenly wished for that 100-year old Young's Con-cordance that the KH had when I was growing up. I finally settled on several floppy or CD versions and now use the Blue Letter bible, on-line.

  Since the Bible applies only to others and not my Old Man, you are right. I mostly rely on cornering him in some lie. He does that as often as he can to get information on me or send someone to look me up.

  I point out that he did something unethical, immoral or even illegal. He will say I did it for your own good. My reply is: Well, since you failed to respect my wishes, you violated my rights, possibly breaking the law criminally, but certainly civilly. That usually gets silence, as I have got the goods on him. He has NO real scruples at all, BTW.

  I recently recounted many of these events over the last 20+ years. Seldom was there ever a doctrinal discussion. It was always 'you HAVE to do this' or such.

  And I have called him less than 20 times over that 20+ years. But, un-til I put my foot down 2 years ago, I could count on him calling me every 2 weeks to gossip, lecture, preach, alienate and taunt me.

  I have come to the conclusion that he is simply the biggest BULLY that I have ever known.

  Yes, while you are correct on using scriptures on them, this is one that I will toss at him on the next round:

  1Pe 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or [as] a thief, or [as] an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

  It puts him in there with the murderers!!!

  Mustang
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  Prisca

  Luvs

  this is an excellent post. I have tried with one family member to reason with her, but it is very very difficult to break through that barrier.

  I find that it's better to take the discussion slowly, stick to one point and try to reason on things from their point of view. Ask questions that have to be answered. Reason on those questions. Act like you are a Bible student all over again, begging to know WHY.

  It's hard, but I think it can be worth it.
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  LovesDubs

  Mustang: Your dad obviously is in the market for somebody to bully, and since you are his daughter and cant really UNDO that scenario, you get stuck with the abuse. All abusers say they do things like hit, or verbally abuse you "for your own good." And thats how they justify it to themselves. My bet is that if this guy is that controlling he doesnt have anybody left at the Kingdom Hall that will take his crap any more, and probably fewer friends. Nor is he interested in whether or not you think his ethics are good either. In fact, my guess is your opinion doesnt matter to him on ANYTHING as the world revolves around him and not you.

  I have figured out that I am not personally in charge of getting my family members out of this cult. Their revelation will have to come from an outside source...from a place they never suspected...and against which they had no mental barriers already in place, you know?
  My mom and your dad would probably get along famously or...like that tiger in that fable...will chase each other down until they turn into a puddle of buttah :)

  Prisca: I agree slow is good..but you know how we can get, we get all wound up in trying to get THROUGH to them that emotions (and in my case VOLUME) get very high some times :)