by logansrun 42 Replies latest jw friends
I would follow what previous posters have said, that being that they believe in Christ, therefore they are Christians.
Many non-Christians believe Christ existed. Even demons believe in Christ. But imo, unless you are living your life by Christ's standards then I don't think you can be considered Christian. Christ was more concerned about the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law. To me, that's the dividing line between true Christian's and psuedo-Judeo cults.
Andi
I would say yes, they are a Christian religion. However they do not practice true Christianity. They have twisted it in knots.
Muslims believe in Jesus but they do not believe he is the savior
Interesting responses so far. From the dogmatic "no" of Yizuman to the "of course" of AlanF. I agree with the latter, by the way. Here's how I see it:
The JWs are a nonpolitical, doctrinally tweaked, corporitized version of evangelical Christianity. Let me break that down
1) Nonpolitical -- pretty straight forward, although they arguably do get involved in politics when it comes to legal matters and in other petty ways. But, all in all, I give the JWs high marks in this area. I don't believe in the Bible anymore, so I think I'm pretty impartial. When I read the NT I think it is pretty clear that Jesus and his followers did not get involved in the politics of the day; they were neutral. Over-all, so are the JWs, so you can say they are following the Bible pretty closely in this area. A casual glance at most evangelical Christians will show a group of people totally immersed in politics, government and even, warfare. This single fact was one of biggest reasons why I felt that the JWs were true Christians. I'm actually shocked to see how blatently un-neutral most born-again's are.
2) Doctrinally tweaked -- I've heard some people make the most outrageous remarks about the JWs being "totally unbiblical" etc. Sorry, I just don't see it like that. For sure, there are doctrines about the JWs that are weird and seem to strain the meaning of many scriptures. For example, saying that the "other sheep" are an earthly class and that the 144,000 must be taken literally seems to be biblically unsound. I think the JWs make a fair argument over such things as the trinity, hellfire and the immortality of the soul. I see good arguments from both camps in these areas. At the same time, though, the JWs are very, very similar to your typical fundamentalist Christian. Their arguments to support the infallibility of the Bible and creationism are nearly identical. Their understanding of Bible history and morality seems very similar as well. Even their exegesis on prophecy is similar. Just pick up the latest Tim LaHaye book or anything by Josh McDowell and you will see that their rhetoric is very much the same. Over-all, I don't see the evangelicals exegesis and doctrines as being superior to the JWs at all. The reverse is also true of the JWs. Their dead-locked for me on this one and could go around and around in hermeneutical circles with no progress for either side.
3) Corporitized Christianity -- One of the major distinctions between JWs and the rest of the fundamentalist world is the fact that this is a corporate, world-wide church which demands total allegience. This probably is one of the major reasons why JWs would not be considered true to the Biblical message. Sorry, but just as I cannot see Jesus followers getting involved in politics, I cannot see them setting up a "corporate headquarters" or demand that each congregation engage in five weekly meetings with a globally arranged theme. Put a mark in the evangelical column for this one.
So there you have it in a nutshell. Those are the major differences between the JWs and evangelical (born-again, fundamentalist) Christians. There are differences to be sure. But the similarities outweigh the differences. Funny thing is, they hate each other!
Bradley
Good points, Bradley. The JWs and Evangelicals detest each other because they're pups from the same bitch, vying for the same audience.
AlanF
Right on target Logan. I find it quite amusing how some ex and non-witnesses consider mainstream Christianity to be "True Christianity" simply because of it's popularity. One of the many reasons why it's popular is because it's so liberal. There really are no rules. Just show up and drop something in the collection plate. Afterall, the only thing you need is faith in Jesus and you'll be forgiven for every sin. Who wouldn't want to be in a religion like that? The borg may be deadwrong in many things, but the unity they brag about so much is indeed harmonious with the bible. Christian disciples had to follow Jesus and believe everything he said. They weren't allowed to think independently or have their own ideas. It amazes me how this crucial fact escapes most bible believers. I don't mean to offend, but I think they're all full of shit. For any single religion to say they have the absolute truth is just plain ridiculous in my opinion. I think we need to follow John Lennon's advice and get rid of religion all together. The world will be a much better place.
Ariell,
For the most part, I agree with what you said. But don't think for one minute that all non-JW Christians are as "liberal" as the JWs would like you to believe. First off, you have a lot of other, smaller Christian cults that practice moral extremism and even shunning. Take the Amish for instance -- they probably look upon JWs as being extremely "liberal"!
Then you have mainstream evangelical Christianity. You know -- the born-again, "all you need is Jesus" types. True, they don't practice shunning and the judicial procedures like the JWs, but their moral stance is usually just as narrow. (Actually, the JW judicial procedure and their shunning policies are a stretch of the scriptures themselves, imo)
Evangelical Christians will rail against homosexuality, masturbation, abortion, alcohol (the JWs are known by many to be heavy drinkers, btw), premarital sex and on and on. I recently saw a book by "Dr." James Dobson, an evangelical minister who heads up "Focus on the Family." Dobson made premarital sex out to be a "grave sin" in the eyes of Jesus! Really, the born-again moral posture only slightly differs from the JWs.
Bradley
Edited to add: Evangelical Christians are a minority in Christendom, by the way. Your typical Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Episcopalian etc. are all of the more liberal variety that you alluded to. I would bet that most "born-againers" look down upon these groups as well, albeit with far less veracity.
Christ was more concerned about the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law.
Yeah. Jesus always used common sense.
Good points, Bradley. The JWs and Evangelicals detest each other because they're pups from the same bitch, vying for the same audience.
ROFL!
No! A Christian is a follower of Christ- Their Christ Is Michael the Ark Angel---- Not the Christ of the Bible
Yeah. Jesus always used common sense.
You mean like when he cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season?
Dedalus
Yes, of course they are Christian. I think any religion that believes in Christ can be considered Christian.
I don't agree with the "they're false Christians" viewpoint. Each Christian religion considers all others to be false. It's such a joke. There probably isn't a single "Christian" religion today that would be familiar to the Christians that lived in the first couple centuries after Christ supposedly lived.
