Who really writes the talks

by anglise 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  mizpah

  I think the majority of parents wrote the talks for their younger children...and in many cases older children, too. I wrote most of my wife's discussions in the "demonstrations" in the school, too. Every time she was on stage, it was agonizing for her. She was, by nature, a shy and quiet individual. But one's standing in the congregation depended upon participation.

  Years ago, the brothers who gave public talks had a wide latitude. Some of the most interesting talks I heard were by brothers who did their own research. Although they might have used an outline from the Society, their material was always fresh and interesting. However, in time, brothers were discouraged from using their own initiatives. "Outlines" practically became manuscripts even with time restrictions for every paragraph. The talks became boring and predictable. Obviously, it was another effort of the Watchtower Society toward conformity.

  Does anyone recall some of the severe measures that were taken before the Ministry School because of the Watchtower dress code? In our congregation, some elders would examine the sisters to make sure their dress was proper for the stage. It was degrading and humiliating especially for those older sisters in the congregation.

  One can only sigh a sigh of relief that we no longer have to put up with all this nonsense.
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  Euphemism

  I believe the socio-economic status of the elder depends on whether he developed any skills before entering the truth.

  Or the status of their parents. The ones I mentioned above, who are a photographer and a businessman, were raised as Witnesses.

  You can't tell me you've known an elder or a pioneer going to night school.

  I've known of several young people pioneering while going to college. I have a good friend who had a part-time job opportunity that required a Masters, so she got the degree, got the job, and started pioneering.

  I agree, however, eldering or pioneering, however, doesn't allow a person time to pursue continuing education while supporting a family.

  An entrepeneur who enters the truth is a rare thing. A JW who becomes an entrepeneur while in the truth is almost impossible.

  Let's see. My father started several succesful business of his own as a JW elder. I know several brothers who've established consulting practices after becoming JWs. And of course, you have the local cleaning moguls.

  The fact is, the economic reality of being a JW depends heavily on the territory of the congregation. I just don't think you can make broad stereotypes.
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  mizpah

  Perhaps times have changed in the organization. But years ago young people were discouraged from getting a college education or even pursuing a career that required further schooling. Young people were encouraged to pioneer right out high school. And when a person did secure a job, he was expected not to work overtime or take a shift that would interfere with meetings and service. The whole emphasis was that "the time remaining was short" and one should be devoting his time to service and the meetings.

  Because many found it economically very hard especially as the young people in the organization married and had families, they created their own jobs. In our area, a good many JWs went into the cleaning business or landscape business. Both jobs required no great skills or education. And, in fact, a decent living could be made by hard work and a good reputation.

  The irony is that when a person came into the organization with a skilled job or a good education, everyone boasted about it. It seemed to be a mark of distinction to have such in the congregation. (No matter that the Watchtower had discouraged those in the ranks not to pursue this course.) Also, we always noticed that the elders and visiting overseers (COs & DOs) would always closely associate with those who better off financially. Perhaps, it was the white envelopes that were passed to them that everyone knew contained money.

  At least years ago, most JWs were at a disadvantage on the economic ladder. But some enterprising individuals were able to over come it.
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  Pork Chop

  I knew one sister that consistently prepared her husbands parts, but that's the only case I know anything about. In general, the brothers I've known wouldn't even consider doing something like that.

  As far as the perennial denigration of elders and their jobs goes, five of the elders in my congregation make six figure salaries. I guess they're not that stupid.
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  Surreptitious

  A JW who becomes an entrepeneur while in the truth is almost impossible.

  Balderdash.
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  mizpah

  It is obvious that the economic status of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society has changed in recent years. This is reflected in the prosperity of the Watchtower organization. One can only account for this by suggesting that many new converts brought a higher level of earnings and more generous contributions...or that a number of younger people in the organization ignored the counsel of the Watchtower and went ahead with their career plans anyway. In either case, it was not because the Watchtower encouraged people to pursue a lucrative career. But it is enjoying the fruits of this prosperity today.

  The fact that JWs are still boasting about their properous brothers and sisters leads me to think that it is still important as a status symbol among its members. Does the rich man still get more attention and honor than the poor "brothers?" It used to be that way twenty years ago. And I dare suggest that it remains the same even today.
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  peacefulpete

  Mizpah..Really nothing significant has changed officially. Those sensitive to the direction from the WT have aways and still are the janitors and common laborers in the community. Here in the midwest U.S. we often shook our heads in judgement of those on the coasts who pursued an education or sought a "career" rather than a job. They were the weak materialistic ones surely reaping a bitter fruitage. Perhaps what is happening (altho I don't really see it here) is that more are choosing to listen discriminantly to the direction, clinging to a few sentences in the WT over the years about earning a "decent living" while dismissing the call for more pioneers.
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  Euphemism

  Actually, a lot changed officially... the w92 11/1 explicitly stated:

  So when parents and young Christians today, after carefully and prayerfully weighing the pros and cons, decide for or against postsecondary studies, others in the congregation should not criticize them.

  There's also a public talk outline on education that has a very similar statement.

  It's still true, of course, that the objective of education is supposed to be supporting oneself as a pioneer. Articles in the KM often suggest going to a trade school instead of a full college, and trying to pioneer while one is in school. But the official position is definitely looser than it used to be.

  I do also agree with peacefulpete, however, that a lot more young witnesses are also disregarding the "encouragement" to pioneer. And frankly, the social pressure isn't nearly as strong as it used to be. Growing up, kids are inevitably exected to have "spiritual goals." But if they don't pursue those goals after graduating, few people are going to raise an eyebrow.
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  mizpah

  If there has been a change in policy, think of those "brothers" who made such sacrifices for the Watchtower needlessly. The reward for their faithfulness was struggling with low paying jobs and hard economic resources. Even in old age, they end up on the low side with their retirement and SS benefits. And now the Society allows higher education and better paying job???

  It sounds similar to what the Watchtower now allows with regard to alternate national service for those facing military service. The Society was adamant about how accepting such was a "compromise" and would not use those "brothers" who chose this course. A number of "brothers" stood firm and ended up in prison rather than "compromise." These brothers lost out on part of their youth because of the Watchtower Society? And now the Society allow alternate service!!! Was this time the brothers spent in prison all needless???

  There is something definately wrong with this picture!
• 

  coffee_black

  I wrote this on another thread:

  I was raised a jw, and I went to college for a year. My father, a very prominent elder, believed in education. He was asked to step down because I was attending college. He refused, and because he knew how to stand up for himself, he remained an elder. I was virtually shunned by nearly all in the congregation, including my so called friends. There was terrible pressure to quit, which my dad tried to counter-act. I quit after a year to marry a jw. Our first major argument was one in which he was determined that I would admit that my attending college had been a sin. I stood my ground but my fledgeling education was a rift between us that widened over the years. Many years later, after our divorce, he wanted our son to attend college. In the interum, he had gone back to get a degree himself. I told him that I thought it was ironic that he would want our son to attend college....given his earlier stance on education. He said "the society never said that you couldn't go to college". I reminded him of our early history on the subject. He had nothing more to say. He is hardly ever speechless, but he was that day.

  There was a softening of position, although it is still not encouraged. Part of the reason for the change was that the subject of education kept coming up in custody cases, and the society didn't look good by discouraging it. The court would often award custody to the parent who would give the child the greatest opportunities.

  I wish I had finished my degree. I had a 3.8 GPA, and I loved the college experience.

  Coffee