Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-20-03 WT Study

by blondie 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  blondie

  I might highlight these paragraphs from a 1993 WT. Note how the UN, the king of the north, and Gog are connected.

  11/1/93 WT

  p. 22 The Final Victory of Michael, the Great Prince

  The destruction of Babylon the Great is graphically described in the book of Revelation: "The ten horns that you saw [the ‘kings’ ruling in the time of the end], and the wild beast [the scarlet-colored wild beast, representing the United Nations organization], these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire." (Revelation 17:16) Truly, the nations ‘destroy much flesh’! (Daniel 7:5) But why will the rulers, including the king of the north, destroy Babylon the Great? Because ‘God puts it into their hearts to carry out his thought.’ (Revelation 17:17) The report "out of the sunrising" may well refer to this act of Jehovah, when, in a way that he chooses, he puts it into the hearts of human leaders to annihilate the great religious harlot.—Daniel 11:44.

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  But there is another target for the wrath of the king of the north. The angel says that he will "plant his palatial tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration." (Daniel 11:45) In Daniel’s time, the grand sea was the Mediterranean, and the holy mountain was Zion, once the site of God’s temple. Hence, in the prophecy’s fulfillment, the enraged king of the north conducts a military campaign against God’s people! In a spiritual sense today, "between the grand sea and the holy mountain" locates him in the spiritual estate of God’s anointed servants, who have come out of "the sea" of alienated mankind and have the hope of ruling on heavenly Mount Zion with Jesus Christ.—Isaiah 57:20; Hebrews 12:22; Revelation 14:1.

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  Ezekiel, a contemporary of Daniel, also prophesied an attack on God’s people "in the final part of the days." He said the hostilities would be initiated by Gog of Magog, representing Satan the Devil. (Ezekiel 38:16) From which direction, symbolically, does Gog come? Jehovah, through Ezekiel, says: "You will certainly come from your place, from the remotest parts of the north." (Ezekiel 38:15) Hence, the report "out of the north" may well be Satan’s propaganda inciting the king of the north and all the other kings to attack Jehovah’s people.—Compare Revelation 16:13, 14; 17:14.

  These same 3 paragraphs appear in the Daniel Prophecy book page 282 par 24-26 (published 1999)
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  Pistoff

  THANKS for the quote blondie; I have the newest CD from WT and guess what?

  It returns NOTHING WHATSOEVER for the UN, or United Nations, or even united + nations!!!!!!!!
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  blondie

  pistoff, are you sure you are using it correctly. Try "united nations" or "UN".

  I came up with the following as the comments about the UN being the destroyer of Babylon the Great from 2000 and 2001.

  11/15/01 WT p. 19 Jehovah Is Our Refuge

  ‘Not even a plague draws near their tent.’ Whether our hope is heavenly or earthly, we are no part of the world, and we are not infected by such spiritually deadly plagues as its immorality, materialism, false religion, and worship of "the wild beast" and its "image," the United Nations.—Revelation 9:20, 21; 13:1-18; John 17:16.

  1/15/00 WT

  pp. 12-13 "Keep on the Watch"

  He also sees "an eighth king" that "springs from the seven." This eighth king—the last one that John envisions—now represents the United Nations. John says that this eighth king "goes off into destruction," after which no further earthly kings are mentioned.

  Isaiah Prophecy

  -2 chap. 18 p. 268 Jehovah Revives the Spirit of the Lowly Ones

  By involving herself in politics, Christendom has ‘committed fornication with the kings of the earth.’ (Revelation 17:1, 2) She is, in fact, a major supporter of the United Nations. What lies ahead for this religious harlot?

  Isaiah Prophecy-1 chap. 5 p. 54 Jehovah Humiliates Self-Exalted Ones

  Faced with deteriorating conditions earth wide, most will likely come to realize that their idols are valueless. In place of these, they may well seek refuge and protection in nonspiritual, earthly organizations, perhaps including the United Nations, the "scarlet-colored wild beast" of Revelation chapter 17. It is "the ten horns" of that symbolic wild beast that will destroy Babylon the Great, the world empire of false religion, of which Christendom is a significant part.—Revelation 17:3, 8-12, 16, 17.

  Isaiah Prophecy-1 chap. 12 p. 153 Do Not Be Afraid of the Assyrian

  There we are introduced to a harlot, "Babylon the Great," representing all the world’s false religions, including Christendom. The harlot is riding a scarlet-colored wild beast that has seven heads and ten horns. (Revelation 17:3, 5, 7-12) The wild beast represents the United Nations organization. Just as the ancient Assyrian destroyed Samaria, the scarlet-colored wild beast "will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire." (Revelation 17:16) Thus the modern-day Assyrian (nations associated with the UN) will deal Christendom a mighty blow and will crush her out of existence.

  Isaiah Prophecy-1 chap. 26 p. 345 "No Resident Will Say: ‘I Am Sick’"

  That "rod" will be member nations of the United Nations—an organization pictured in Revelation as a seven-headed, ten-horned, scarlet-colored wild beast.—Revelation 17:3, 15-17.
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  Pistoff

  you are so right blondie..........I don't know why it didn't work this afternoon.

  But anyway, your posts were what I was looking for. Only after researching all afternoon do I see how twisted up the connection is.

  The WT combines references to Gog from Ezekiel and Revelation in most discussions so that the direct connection to the UN is never too obvious, except for the posts you had. Usually they connect the seven headed, ten horned beast to the UN as ridden by the harlot, and then tie it in to who Jehovah uses to destroy religion, mixed with pious admonitions to the disobedient nations, lol.

  It is such a mess when I go back to reread it. I can't believe that my brain never analyzed the leaps they make from one prophet to another, and assume the fulfillment of the dire OT prophecies in the modern day. ESPECIALLY glaring in these discussions is the discussion of Jesus way of life and thinking while on earth; they are exactly opposite of the tone of these fire and brimstone treatments in the WT.

  Even in today's lesson: the final picture and glowing description is of the victory song after the slaying of Jah's enemies as the Israelites watched. They really love the OT and the dramatic deaths of "opposers". I know why now of course; it contains the black and white, follow us or DIE message they love and need.

  I just hate these guys. They are so despicably dishonest and manipulative.
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  UnDisfellowshipped

  Wow, great thread!

  Thanks to everyone for their great comments!

  Especially thanks to Blondie!!!!

  I'm planning to post quite a bit of info and WT Quotes (that's what I'm "famous" for) on this Thread soon.

  First, I'm going to comment on some of Mizpah's statements:

  Mizpah said:

  All these comments are very interesting. But does it ever bother any of you that the Watchtower still has such a great hold over you as long as you continue to read and to analyze the contents of its publications? In a sense, you continue to be chained to the organization. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use this time reading the Bible and considering the positive teachings of Christ?

  I do not appreciate those statements at all.

  The only statement I agree with is that we should read the Bible, especially Christ's teachings.

  You must have definitely overlooked some of Christ's teachings (and His Apostles' teachings), such as:

  Matthew 28:19-20: Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.

  Ephesians 5:8-13: For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light--for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth, proving what is well-pleasing to the Lord. And have no partnership with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of those things being done by them in secret. But all things that are exposed are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.

  I do not appreciate the fact that you are trying to get people to STOP obeying those Scriptures.

  The Bible tells (actually commands) Christians to teach people the truth, and to EXPOSE FALSE TEACHINGS.

  In fact, Jesus Himself commended one of the 1st-Century Churches because they EXPOSED FALSE TEACHERS:

  Revelation 2:2-3: "I know your works, and your labor, and your endurance, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you tested those who say that they are apostles and they are not, and you found them to be liars; and you have endurance and you have born patiently on account of My Name, and you did not become weary.

  Mizpah said:

  It is true that all of us who have beloved family members in the organization are not totally free from it. But my wife and I decided long ago that it is a waste of time to devote precious hours to a lost cause. We feel that the scriptural advise escpecially applies to the Watchtower: "To the making of books there is no end." It results in " a weariness to the flesh."

  I personally do not think that it is "a lost cause" to try and help people to see the real truth about the Watchtower Society -- maybe you do.

  I personally do not think that it is "a lost cause" to try and help people to see the real truth about Jesus Christ -- maybe you do.

  I cannot believe you have just "written off" all of the Jehovah's Witnesses as "a lost cause", and you think it is a waste of time to try and help these poor misguided, deceived, lost souls.

  It is because of "Apostate" Websites that spent hours and hours and hours researching and posting Watchtower Quotes and Teachings and Doctrines, and comparing them to the Bible, that I found out that the Watchtower Society is FALSE (and it was definitely because of the Lord Jesus Christ opening my eyes and leading me to that information).

  Let me ask you a question, Mizpah -- why did you leave the Watchtower Society? How did you find out they were not teaching the truth?

  I'm going to guess that someone (or someone's website or someone's book) helped you to realize that.

  Mizpah said:

  I'm not trying to discourage a lively discussion about the Watchtower Society. I enjoy this as much as anyone. But I'm always amazed by those who delve so deeply into the Watchtower publications and spend so much time in critical reviews. I'll look forward to your responses.

  Why? What (in your mind) is the difference between people who spend hours talking about the Society and the people who do hours doing research to help people see the real truth about the Watchtower Society?

  Mizpah said:

  It's not that I don't appreciate and admire the research work that is done. My concern is that until one breaks the hold that the Watchtower has over you, you will never come to appreciate true Christian freedom. The Watchtower will still control you and your lives as long as it demands your time and attention.

  True Christian Freedom involves teaching other people THE REAL TRUTH, and EXPOSING FALSE TEACHINGS. Please read the Bible.

  Why did the Apostle Paul travel around to nation after nation and suffer persecution, stoning, beatings, people trying to kill him, etc.? Because HE LOVED PEOPLE and wanted them to know the real truth.

  Mizpah said:

  Blondie: I didn't realize that you were so recently associated with the Watchtower. And I can understand your drive to prove it wrong. But it has been twenty years since my wife and I left. And after a time, we came to realize that our time is more valuable and precious than to dwell on what is wrong in every article and publication of the Watchtower. It's simply not worth it.

  I'm sorry -- I do not agree with you at all on that.

  Even if ONLY ONE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS realizes that the Watchtower Society is FALSE, then all of the research, and all of the time spent, was WELL WORTH IT!

  Or, even if ONLY ONE PERSON is prevented from becoming a JW, then it has all been worth it.

  It does not appear that you value the lives of Jehovah's Witnesses as being worth much at all. That is not the way God views them.

  Would you die for a Jehovah's Witness? Christ did:

  Romans 5:8: But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

  Mizpah said:

  I'm glad some of you benefit by this type of critical review. But my hope is that you'll be able to get beyond this need and start enjoying life without the Watchtower.

  I just wanted to say that I enjoy life by telling people the real truth.
• 

  mizpah

  Undisfellowshipped:

  I accept your reprimand even though I disagree with it. As I mentioned before, most JWs will not be convinced by arguing doctrine. They become defensive and only think of what kind of counter-argument is in their "bag of tricks" from the Watchtower Society. Obviously, from some of the comments on this thread, there are people who have left or are in process of leaving the organization that get benefit from the research of people like Blondie. So I concede that there must be a need for this type of research material.

  My chief concern was for people like Blondie herself. ( I had not realized she was so recently associated with the organization.) I would hate to think that any person was still going to be attached to the Watchtower Society in a positive or negative way. If we spend the rest of our lives debating Watchtower doctrine, we are still under the influence of that organization. And that would be a real tragedy.

  So my prayer for you and for the others is that you'll soon be completely free of the fetters of the Watchtower Society and won't need this kind of reassurance that the Society is wrong. Young people today have an expression: "get a life." The implication, I think, means don't dwell too much on the past that we can't change, but make positive changes now and enjoy the future. And that is good advice for all of us.