Please tell me it isnt true

Eugene Shubert

I have been accused of being too similar to the Jehovah's Witnesses in my teaching about Jesus. Please tell me it isn’t true. If you could contrast my perspective in terms of JW belief and approximate your distance from me, I would sincerely appreciate it.

http://www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead

badolputtytat

Hi welcome to the board

" Our doctrinal position on this issue...."

First question... Who is "our"?

Second question.... If I join this "our" or "we" .... do I have to believe everything that "We" believe?

OrbitingTheSun

Uh oh...

I mean, Welcome to the board!

Eugene Shubert

Hi Orbit. Thanks for that wonderful, delightful smile. You make me wish I were 20.

Badolputtytat,

I assume that sacrosanct JW belief is whatever the Watchtower Society says it is.

Loris

Welcome to the board. Most of the persons on this board are no longer JW's. Although we aim to be tolerant of all persons no matter their religious or non-religious persuation (sp) We for the most part have experienced the extreme intolerance of JW's first hand and do not want to do that any more.

JW's believe similar to you with the exception that they do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person. They believe that it is an impersonal force. (sort of like the force of Star Wars fame)

There are a few very long threads on this board debating the Trinity. Do a search and read them to get a feel for how diverse this group has become since leaving the controlling atmosphere of the JW's.

approximate your distance from me

I can't answer this since I don't know where you are.

Loris

Eugene Shubert

Loris,

I meant the distance from http://www.everythingimportant.org/Godhead

Euphemism

Eugene... my personal theological positions are not exactly those of the Watchtower Society. However, I'll try and let you know which points on your site are different from official JW theology.

Jesus received and accepted worship

The WTS claim that this was in fact 'obeisance', bowing down as a form of respect, rather than worship.

The Divinity of Jesus?

The WTS calls Jesus "a god" in their translation of John 1:1, but they also point out that human judges are called gods in Jo 10:34,35 (quoting the Psalms).

They translate Phil 2:6 as saying that Jesus was "existing in God's form." They do not, however, officially state that he had divine nature, although this statement would not contradict their beliefs, and it's one that I've heard various studious and scholary JWs make.

They translate Col 1:15 as "the firstborn of all creation," and interpret this to mean that Jesus was created.

The Meaning of Sonship

As noted above, JWs believe that Jesus was created; they also believe, however, that he is higher than all other created beings because he assisted in their creation.

As a poster noted above, they do not believe that the Holy Spirit is a person; they believe that it is God's active force.

JWs would accept your statement that " The Son represents the revealed will and mind of God so perfectly that He is rightfully called the word of God," but they would disagree with your exegesis of 1 John 4:8,16. They also would disagree with your definition of the Godhead, considering it to be the Father alone.

Everything else in your page, which I haven't noted above, I believe would be in accord with official WTS theology. Hope this helps!

NeonMadman

Errrr...I'm confused as to how anybody could equate what you say on that page with the teaching of JW's - well, maybe just a thing or two. You appear to be presenting, for the most part, a fairly straightforward exposition of the deity of Christ and the Trinity doctrine as taught by orthodox Christianity. JW's, of course, deny both of these doctrines. I'm not sure, however, in what way the material you present supports your opening statement that " Our doctrinal position on this issue is that there no significant difference between the best Trinitarian view and the best non-Trinitarian view of God." What you offer seems clearly to favor the Trinitarian position.

However, there are a few deviations in which you do approximate JW teaching. You speak of the Father as "a God above" Jesus, and I would agree that the Father is positionally superior to the Son, though not superior by nature. While Jesus was on earth, he had divested himself of his heavenly glory, and could rightly say that the Father was (positionally) greater than he was. I might say that the President of the United States is greater than I am, positionally speaking, but he is certainly not better than I am (i.e., of a higher nature - he is still a man, as I am). It is similar with the Father and the Son (and, for that matter, the Holy Spirit as well). While the persons in the Godhead are ontologically equal (i.e., equal as to their natures), they are economically different (different as to the functions they perform). It is only with regard to the functional distinction that we may speak of one as being "greater" than another.

A great reference on this topic is the book, The Forgotten Trinity, by James R. White. I recommend it highly.