Now i understand why you don't believe that Jesus can be in two places at once- in the heart of all believers and guiding their fellowship whenever they meet together in His name....and that's because you don't believe He exists.
OK.
Does Jesus Live Inside JW's ?
by Sea Breeze 45 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Smiles
Have you ever summoned down Jesus to be present here at this gathering forum?
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Disillusioned JW
What Smiles says of Jesus Christ not really being n the midst of multiple believers meeting in hiis name, makes a great deal of sense. That is because if Jesus Christ was present among Christians gathered together in his name, then the various groups of Christians wouldn't be doctrinally divided, yet they are greatly divided doctrinally and into numerous denominations and sects of Christianity. Such doctrinal divisions among Christians have existed even since the first century CE (as even testified in the NT letters which are attributed to Paul).
Furthermore, Jesus is definitely not being present on this website. If he was then the Christians gathered together on this website wouldn't persist in disputing with each in doctrinal matters, for they would have "the mind of Christ" (a term of the Apostle Paul) and thus be doctrinally united.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Smiles,
I don't see believers needing to summon Jesus to do what He says He will do. This is gospel and Christians are united in believing what Jesus says and accomplished. I was listening this morning, to a wonderful rendition of, "My Faith Has Found a Resting Place"; the chorus of which goes like this.
I need no other argument
I need no other plea,
It is enough that Jesus died,
And that He died for me.
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Sea Breeze
If Jesus Christ was present among Christians gathered together in his name, then the various groups of Christians wouldn't be doctrinally divided, yet they are greatly divided doctrinally
@DJW - The WT has been claiming this, but the truth of the matter is Bible-believing Christians are united in the essentials - Justification, Sanctification & Glorification.
From there, the tent is plenty big enough to accommodate non-essential diversity of thought. Go and learn the difference between unity and uniformity.
DJW says:
A relevant question to ask within this topic is the following. "Do JWs want Jesus or Jehovah to live instead of them?" I think that if JWs (and maybe even non-evangelical Christians in general) were to think about the idea of Jesus or Jehovah/YHWH (God the Father) living inside of them, then most of them would dislike the idea, but perhaps I am wrong about that.
Finally you got something right DJW! The idea of self-abandonment is utterly foreign to our nature. This is an adult problem. Little kids (in loving homes) don't have this problem.
Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? 32Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. 33So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. - Jesus
Usually people don't make this kind of decision until they are squeezed. I personally believe that when people get near death, the price seems all the sudden very acceptable.
When the Roman legions showed up on the edge of your territory, the terms were a small percentage of your wealth. This seemed reasonable to many peoples. They got a free army in exchange and didn't have to worry about the maurading bands of barbarians as much.
Likely, people thought Jesus would maybe strike some kind of similar deal. In the scripture above, Jesus sets forth his terms for peace. It is quite simple: ALL OF IT. -
Disillusioned JW
Yes the WT teaches it, except they claim those Christians are not true Christians and except that the WT excludes themselves from the group. But I view the WT and JWs as also being a part of Christianity (and even within Christendom, for they teach Christ's kingdom) and hence are also part of the division within Christianity. In regards to the WT and JWs highly protest-ant nature against other Christian religions, to me they are clearly Protestants despite the WT saying they are not Protestants and not a part of Protestantism.
I am familiar with the claim of Christians being united in the essentials and the claim that such is enough, but I strongly think more unity in many more beliefs is required if Christ is truly leading Christians. A number of atheist authors promoting atheism also share this view of mine, and perhaps I learned it from them.
Sea Breeze, I wasn't promoting self-abandonment, nor speaking of it in my prior post. I was not saying I never wanted the presence of Christ or God to be with me (provided they are outside of me), though I didn't want to go the heaven. (Furthermore, I was fine the idea of some of Jehovah's power working within in to help, for in a number of prayers i asked for God to help him accomplish certain things, him giving me the strength to be a better Christian.) Instead in my post I said I didn't want them inside of me - that is a big distinction. Likewise in regards to what I said about most JWs and possibly most non-evangelical Christians.
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Sea Breeze
I view the WT and JWs as also being a part of Christianity
The WT is as far from biblical Christianity as you can get. They teach that Jehovah is not your father (only potentially your father). They teach that Jesus isn't your Mediator, and that You cannot be Justified.
Would you like to see the WT quotes on these? They are a very poor and wretched fake. They literally lie through their teeth publicly on street corners and say that they do believe and teach this stuff. Only you find out later after baptism that they lied to you. Then, it's too late. By that time, they have their hooks into you and your family.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwH_USEzpU&t=9s&ab_channel=BibleReady
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, I realize that WT has a number of teachings which disagree with the what the Bible says about Christianity, but they also have a number of teachings which agree with what the Bible teaches about Christianity. That latter include the following: Jesus is the son of God; Jesus is the Messiah and the Christ; a kingdom has been promised to Christ, Christ will execute judgement, a number of Christians will rule with him and serve as kings and priests during the time that Satan will be in the abyss for 1,000 years, and that Jesus is the mediator of those who will serve in such a capacity; that through Jesus Christ everything (and everyone) in existence; other than God the Father and Jesus (and the holy spirit?); came into existence.
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Sea Breeze
Demons believe the same and shudder. Are they Christians too?
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Disillusioned JW
Sea Breeze, regarding you comment of "Demons believe the same and shudder. Are they Christians too?" my answer to you is as follows. The difference is that JWs (including me when I was a JW) worship Jehovah God and most JW's (even including probably the governing body of the JWs) do their best to do what they believe is God's will. Furthermore, the difference is that JWs love Jehovah God and Jesus Christ and are loyal to them (at least they believe they are loyal to them) and they hope of becoming blessed by Jehovah God, including attaining eternal life (whether in heaven as a spirit being or on Earth as a perfect human being). Regarding the demons I no longer believe they exist (as you know), though I realize that the Bible says they exist and that the Bible says they believe in God and shudder.
Regarding the claim of "They literally lie through their teeth publicly on street corners and say that they do believe and teach this stuff" I don't know if that is true, except perhaps in regards to a very small percentage of JWs. When I talked to a couple of JWs (I spoke to each them on a different occasion) I thought that one of them was lying in some things he said, or was possibly very deluded. I thought the other person was deluded in regards to one thing she said. I never said (such as when witnessing for example) the WT teaches something I knew it didn't teach.
I notice you said the following. "Only you find out later after baptism that they lied to you. Then, it's too late. By that time, they have their hooks into you and your family." In regards to their doctrines pertaining to what the Bible teaches that wasn't the case with me, since I was taught the JW religion from infancy (rather than from JWs witnessing to me in field service) and thus I studied the WT literature for years before I became baptized. However in regards to the WT's mishandling of quotes of many scientists (and of some other other sources) and in regards to what the WT has lyingly said of so-called apostates (that all of them lie about the WT), I didn't know such was the case until years after I became baptized.