The Rise and Fall of JW.com

by teejay 18 Replies latest forum suggestions

  • Simon
    Simon

    Here we go, same old people, same old complaints

    Complaining and being critical is very easy isn't it?

    I'd have more time for many of the comments if the same people who complain when things are locked are not also the same ones who complain when they are not.

    We always get the same old voices with the same worn out arguments either complaining that there is too much moderation or that there is too little.

    If you want to be taken seriously, why don't you come up with a complete and comprehensive rulebook that we could follow? Then we would be able to keep you happy although I would not hold my breath.

    Teejay: You have said in other topics that you have no interest in JW stuff any more? If that's the case then why are you here? Are you trying to achieve something?

    Francois: I have deleted your post. Oh the irony.

    BTW: My comments above are not targetted at those such as Waiting who's comments and feedback I value and will take on board.

  • waiting
    waiting

    Hello Simon,

    Mannnnnnnnnnnnn, was I ready to jump back at you ('mercun saying) As I clicked to reply, however, I noticed the ps. Thank you.

    No, I try (really, I do) to stay out of the flames within the last year. I also am not against moderators - but please remember, Hawkaw was right in there with me.

    I took exception to tj's remark about me "Say what you will about her"......but then, women *tend* to see from a personal perspective like "What do you mean....exactly....by that remark, tj?"

    But few - if anyone - takes exception to Hawkaw's comments ........ any of them. He's a centered poster here. One of the best, imho. He's well educated, articulate and doesn't take far sides on anything, imho. And he doesn't have the conditioned negative response to "trigger words" - such as "elder mentality."

    Hawkaw noticed the same moderator disparity I did.....and he said he privately corresponded with y'all about this.

    I don't think there's overall hypocrisy going on - and I don't agree with all the comments stated in this thread - but I do still stand behind my posts on this subject dealing with IW, which happen to agree with some of the statements in this thread.

    It wasn't a level playing field for all posters. The forum assistants had the power positions - and used them - in this instance.

    waiting

  • Simon
    Simon
    It wasn't a level playing field for all posters

    Yes, and I make no apologies for this. It has to be this way or else moderators couldn't do what they are supposed to do. Is it fair? No. But it is necessary for things to work and keep working.

    It seems everyone has got all in a tiz over ONE SINGLE INCIDENT and is now making it into something that it is not. I remind people that they are missing the point and should look again at the CONTENT of the posts.

    Perhaps we should do as some other forums do where things are simply deleted without trace and with no explanation? Strange that the people who complain about the moderation here suddenly have no problem with moderation elsewhere. This is one reason why I don't pay much attention to their complaints. We've always tried to explain our actions but some have taken this as meaning that things are open to constant debate and challenge which they are not.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I have made my points yesterday both in Jim's thread as well as the moderators' thread on this issue.

    I again stand by my comments and by waiting's comments and I do think TeeJay does make some valid points.

    I don't think TeeJay is saying a single incident, Simon. It seems to me that this single incident is actually an issue that has been building for sometime with him and finally, what happened yesterday triggered the comments from a few, including me.

    As I have said before - you guys need your freedom - it is so important. And as I have said before good debates with good counter arguements work much better than a thread lock.

    I understand thread locks when people are swearing their heads off or whatever. And of course I will edit stuff if I see private addresses, names etc. being used. I also have edited stuff if I see someone has missed an interesting link that could add to their post - right Scully.

    And as I said yesterday I enjoy everyone here and highly respect everyone - whether they know it or not.

    But sh!t happens. The moderators try their best and if things screw up, we learn and move on. So we will just have to agree to disagree on this particular issue. The majority of moderators have spoken and the threads have been locked. We voiced our concerns, freely and then decisions are made to unlock or leave be.

    So now its time to move on.

    I still want to make it clear that I thoroughly enjoy this site compared to others and still only post here when it comes to JW issues. Why? I feel comfortable here and enjoy the debating that occurs. Simon has created an excellent board and its an honour to be here.

    hawk (whose centring sometimes leaves him and people on this board bring him back to the centre from the "far sides" of life)

  • teejay
    teejay
    Teejay, I am focused, bro. Please answer my question if you are able to. -- Minimus

    Please reference Reborn's post.

    Does it make sense to lock one thread dealing with Ray Franz/Bill Bowen only to immediately open another one? My answer to that is "no". What should a moderator do who finds that a post made by one of their friends happens to violate the posted guidelines? Blithely saying that the moderators are inconsistent is not the answer. People tend to chafe at that excuse.

    If one person says something that is edited while someone else says the same thing and their post isn't edited, then there's a problem.

    If one person is allowed to post groundless allegations and another isn't allowed the same freedom -- or even allowed to answer the groundless allegation (lie) -- there's a problem.

    If one person asks a question but is told by the board owner to shut up about it and a day later another poster comes along and asks a very similar question and the thread is allowed to go for pages, there's a problem.


    Here we go, same old people, same old complaints

    No, Simon, it's not the same old complaints. Since the day you chose to appoint moderators, I have supported you, have I not? When the censorship issue raged and JanH stayed on your ass for days, I supported your side of the argument, did I not? I did so in both cases not because of you but because I felt you were right. In this matter, I don't think you're right. It's not the "same old complaint."

    Complaining and being critical is very easy isn't it?

    Yes, and some people have a hard time taking criticism, even when it is constructive and giving with a pure motive, don't they?

    I'd have more time for many of the comments if the same people who complain when things are locked are not also the same ones who complain when they are not.

    You have locked more than one of my threads over the years and while I didn't think it was appropriate, I did not complain. I have complained once about such an action, and that was when you immediately started another thread that centered on the exact same issue that was being debated in the thread you locked -- YOUR posted guidelines.

    We always get the same old voices with the same worn out arguments either complaining that there is too much moderation or that there is too little.

    Nice try at missing the point, Simon, but it won't work.

    Who said that there is too much moderation? Not me! I simply said that the moderation being done here is unbalanced, unfair, and often at odds with your own guidelines. Seems that you should care about that. As I (I thought) clearly pointed out, I fully accept/agree with the fact that moderation is part of running a db. The question isn't whether there is too much/too little moderation, but WHAT KIND? If you are determined at all costs to support the people you have placed in these positions no matter what, then fine. Just let us know.

    If you want to be taken seriously, why don't you come up with a complete and comprehensive rulebook that we could follow? Then we would be able to keep you happy although I would not hold my breath.

    I don't care if you take me seriously or not, Simon. Your opinion is only your opinion and carries no more weight than the next person's. Either I think your opinion is a good one ... or otherwise. That said, I agree with your long-stated position (your posted guidelines to the contrary) that there is no need for a rulebook. Does it take a rulebook for people to be consistent and fair? I don't think so.

    Teejay: You have said in other topics that you have no interest in JW stuff any more? If that's the case then why are you here?

    Take note of the threads I post to (and avoid) and you'll have your answer.

    Are you trying to achieve something?

    Yes. Fair play.

    BTW: My comments above are not targetted at those such as Waiting who's comments and feedback I value and will take on board.

    As I say, it matters to some people where their truth comes from. tj ~ who also agrees with Waiting

  • teejay
    teejay

    Thank you for your fairness, Hawk. It has not gone unnoticed.

  • Simon
    Simon

    Well, I note you have competely sidestepped the issue of how YOU think it should be done. C'mon, give us your wisdom or go setup your own forum and try doing this.

    Frankly, I'm gettin more than a little pissed of with some of the constant whinging.

    If you don't like it here PISS OFF

  • Simon
    Simon

    If you can't see the difference between the things that get locked and the topics I have then raised to address the issues then you have a serious comprehension problem.

    There could be an argument going on about something where people are making personal attacks. I may lock this and start a topic reminding people that personal attacks are not allowed. Wassup? Don't like it? Tough.

    Now, can I suggest you go get your "jollies" elsewhere 'cause I'm through with this discussion,.

    And YES, it does mean that I can lock a topic.

  • hawkaw
    hawkaw

    I know you have locked the topic Simon but I have unlocked it for just a second to add something to this thread.

    Calm down. Just relax. People are expressing their views and well its okay to do that.

    Everyone has made their points and your points are taken by everyone too. A decision is reached after the debate and well that's that.

    So try calming down. There is no need to freak out big guy and no need to be angry at Teejay either.

    It's healthy to have critcism and a lively debate over the topic as long as its done professionally. I haven't observed anything nasty being said in this thread by Teejay. Some critism - oh yeah - but it's healthy.

    Take some time away from the board big guy and then come back. I get bitched all the time too even whven I'm trying to help certain JWs. Did I ever tell you the story of ******* and the British reporter, Steve Bates, who now refuses to talk to me anymore - all because I tried to protect ***** from Steve - oh man was that crazy? I will even tell you about the cop xxxx and what happened there. Anytime. It just pushes over the edge if you aren't careful.

    All I say is be cool and don't let it get to you to much. Let people air their differences in their own ways - its healthy - especially after they have just come out of a killer cult - like you have.

    hawk

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