Farewell

by EdenOne 104 Replies latest jw experiences

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  slimboyfat

  A belief can't exist outside a person.
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  Simon

  Belief isn't who or what you are. It is a coat you chose to wear ... and should be discarded when it's worn out and people start laughing at it.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Belief isn't who or what you are. It is a coat you chose to wear ... and should be discarded when it's worn out and people start laughing at it.

  I think each of the three assertions above are true sometimes but not all of the time.
• 

  Ucantnome

  Bye
• 

  GrreatTeacher

  Eden, I have enjoyed your posts. I enjoy robust intellectual discussion, but I understand if you need to take a break.

  Please come back and visit.

  GrreatTeacher
• 

  Apognophos

  Okay, back. I feel like I missed some posts... people seem to be quoting things I never read.
  

  Simon wrote:
  

  I think in general *less* moderation is usually better. For various reasons, many exJWs have issues with anything they perceive as authority.
  

  As I've read this forum over time, I've realized increasingly how true this is. Apparently a lot of people here were abused by authority in the religion. That certainly wasn't my experience as a JW, so I might be accused of being unsympathetic to that issue, but as far as I'm concerned, enforcing standard forum etiquette is not something that should be done lightly just because it upsets people.

  I say this mainly because once something hurtful is said, it can't ever be totally taken back (though apologies help, obviously), so it's better to prevent escalating arguments from going all the way so they don't create long-lasting grudges.

  Of course things that cross the line are removed but we will not be going back to the scolding / telling people off type approach that some used because I think it get's people's backs up.

  Doesn't it seem... inconsistent... to say that exiting JWs should be treated so roughly by regular posters here because we don't want to upset... regular posters by enforcing etiquette? Who really needs to be treated more kindly: a long-time poster who already went through a post-JW religious phase, and is now angry at religion, and maybe has some left-over issues with authority, or a shell-shocked TTATT newbie?
  

  
  

  But on the flip side, it means moderating won't always be immediate and visible and people have to accept that.

  It's hard to know how to respond to this without knowing specifically what you mean, but just to reiterate an old point of mine, it's customary to say something when removing posts. Presumably you, Simon, can see what moderators do, and I know that you did say something when removing some posts in this thread, but if you're telling us that most of the moderators' actions are invisible, then how can anyone other than the parties who had posts edited/deleted learn any lessons? But perhaps I am arguing against something you're not really saying.

  I will be looking to expand the moderator team and also provide more community controls

  +1. Gefällt mir-angaben. Twitter heart. (And by the way, if posters actually know who is performing moderation, then you won't be the sole target of all the "drama" PMs ; )
  

  (but some then complain about likes and dislikes, sheesh)

  Yes, any reputation system will get complaints, but that's okay. This system is better than the type that lets people submit a reason with their +/- rep that the recipient can see. Those lead to nothing good.

  
  

  nicolaou wrote:
  

  Personally, I try to be patient and polite with all doubting Jehovah's Witnesses who come here[...].

  But.

  Once individuals become ex-JWs the game changes. [...] For god's sake, we are adults aren't we?!

  Sure, but what some people are objecting to is the tone with which arguments are conducted. Calling someone's god a monster, for example, is completely ineffective in getting them to question their beliefs. The same concept could be conveyed much more diplomatically. In my experience, if you want to actually win someone over to your side, you have to do it with kindness. We did it as Witnesses when preaching to people; how could so many have forgotten this principle when they left the religion?

  Ever since I started coming here, I've seen nothing but abuse heaped on Christians who actively proselytize here in even the mildest manner. It's not justified by saying that you have personally decided that they are now an ex-JW and thus not worthy of politeness. Most people here have said that the process of going from JW to ex-JW takes years, not months. It's not a sudden, binary flip.
  

  I think it's especially important to remember that JW lurkers are reading these threads. We should write with the complete audience in mind. No need to scare anyone off by implying that they shouldn't be questioning the "truth" if they aren't ready to cast off all their belief in God. On its good days, this community can be an inviting place for frightened and questioning JWs, but on its bad days, it probably does as much good as the apostate with a megaphone outside a convention.
  
• 

  Simon

  I can sum it up for you like this:

  Telling people off publicly is problematic because people rail against authority. But it's also problematic because some people demand visible action.

  Two very conflicting requirements. Someone is going to be disappointed.

  Demanding notification and explanation of every moderator action is counterproductive and won't be happening. The posting guidelines are clear on this. People either understand and appreciate the intent behind them or they are looking for loopholes and to waste time (why, why, why, tell me why again - certain people I could name).

  So if you have a complaint then you are either looking for thing to be genuinely improved OR you are looking for someone to be told off. Why would we pander to the latter?

  
  
• 

  smiddy

  Can we end this discussion now , PLEASE ?

  smiddy
• 

  slimboyfat

  You can end any discussion you like personally by not opening the thread.
• 

  ihunt

  If people continue to post on this site in the manner Viv often does, and without moderation from the site admin/moderatorals, I believe that this

  "and provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends."

  should be edited to more accurately describe what this community is (has become), a place where long time posters will lampoon and harass anyone with a differing opinion, where moderators do not moderate, and where empathy is more scarce than it is inside a doomsday cult.