Biblical Scholar Claims The Story Of Jesus Christ Was A HOAX Designed To Control The People

anointed1

Here is something I found interesting:

http://simplecapacity.com/2016/10/biblical-scholar-claims-story-jesus-christ-hoax-designed-control-people/

Atwill's been peddling this for a long time. Has he qualified in anything since first publishing? I'm behind on my pseudo-history stuff. But, anyway, this 'theory' has been debunked pretty thoroughly. It's a fun idea to turn the gospels into a first century Da Vinci Code, but it's not something which stands up to serious scrutiny.

Robert Price's debunking is fairly thorough: http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.com/rev_atwill.htm

Crazyguy

I believe Atwill is incorrect. It's of my opinion that those that have said there's a connection with the God Serapis and the guy they now call Jesus. To many of the dots connect and the Serapis cult became very popular in the Roman Empire before and after the guy named Jesus.

So anyway Serapis was the foundation God and all the gods that were atributes to him and thier characteristics became who we now call jesus.

smiddy

I think the story of an Almighty God , Jehovah/Yahweh was a hoax designed to control the people that spawned offshoots such as Jesus ,Allah ,and whoever else since the beginning of time.

And thats just considering the Judeo / Christian / Islamic religions .

The same can be said for the multitude of non Christian Religions around the world going back to the beginning of time , that it was all a hoax designed to control the masses ,I can accept that

Thats what politics is all about isnt it ? Controlling the masses ? As is Religion ?

Religion & Politics go hand in hand ,despite what you hear about seperation of Church and State.

Religion controls people / politics controls people ,put them together and you have a strong voice in controlling a bigger slice of the pie to your advantage.

Half banana

Posting attempts at interpretations of scholarly works on this site is fraught with difficulties because here is not the medium for precise thinking, logical examination and supply of textual evidence. We here can casually talk of “a hoax” as we think in our everyday language: yes religion or Jesus is a hoax...and that is the way it is.

But when it comes to trying to verify these thing at a deeper level, unless we have studied the subjects of first century Roman history at least at a masters degree level we are usually floundering (me especially). What is required is a profound knowledge of the whole subject including textual studies and Iron Age and Classical period literature, the power politics of the period, contemporary philosophy and religious beliefs and the very important history of both of them, ethnography and mythology and the social function of myth and even the subject of how we read and interpret the past---in order to be able to give a serious response.

Most of us don’t have the time and having been JWs have missed this opportunity in life to study at that depth. But fear not! Robert M Price, as Mephis directs us, has most of these requirements under his belt so to speak. What Price is debunking is the trope of Atwill describing all the known stories of the NT as a furtive joke, a nod to those in the know and a put-down of resurgent Jewish opposition to Rome for the sake of political compliance.

I usually find academics tied to religious institutions suspect in their allegiances and find Price reverent of the Bible text but not of the traditions of Christianity. However he does not think there is sufficient evidence to say that Jesus was a real person and finds a mythicist explanation for his presence in the gospels.

Atwill said that Jesus is, “the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources”. I agree with him and probably so would Robert M Price.

anointed1

Jesus may not be a fictional character,

however, much of the things he purportedly taught could be fictitious:

· If you do something wrong with your eye or hand, cut/pluck it off (Matthew 5:29-30).

· Marrying a divorced woman is adultery. (Matthew 5:32)

· Don’t plan for the future. (Matthew 6:34)

· Don’t save money. (Matthew 6:19-20)

· Don’t become wealthy. (Mark 10:21-25)

· Sell everything and give it to the poor. (Luke 12:33)

· Don’t work to obtain food. (John 6:27)

· Don’t have sexual urges. (Matthew 5:28)

· Make people want to persecute you. (Matthew 5:11)

· If someone steals from you, don’t try to get it back. (Luke 6:30)

· If someone hits you, invite them to do it again. (Matthew 5:39)

· If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment. (Matthew 5:40)

· If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles. (Matthew 5:41)

· If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question. (Matthew 5:42)

Very few Christians, even fundamentalists, follow even one of these precepts, and yet they will tell you that Jesus is their role model (What would Jesus do?). Most of what Jesus is saying here is not practical, and if someone today was saying these things on a street corner, what would listeners consider him to be?.

anointed1

A teacher should be clear and precise, should not leave things for scholars to interpret in the way they like, says the Bible itself: “If the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?” (1Corinthians 14:8) Interestingly, Jesus’ own disciples were thinking of who will become first among themselves—something that is very opposite of being spiritual, hence were not in a position to grasp things clearly.

Mephis

Atwill said that Jesus is, “the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources”. I agree with him and probably so would Robert M Price.

The purpose of citing Price was because of his mythicist beliefs. Carrier's also debunked Atwill. Neither are in the scholarly consensus on mythicism. But it's irrelevant to Atwill's ideas. There are easier routes to a mythicist position than to fantasise Josephus writing the gospels for the Flavians.

bohm

There is a lot of one-man theories regarding early Christianity/mythicism that has made it into atheist circles and are quite widely believed to be true despite having very little basis in fact.

What I find most interesting is that the people who promote these view seem to hold the same basic view: The mainstream view on early Christianity, firmly believed to be true by virtually all experts, is false. Furthermore the mainstream view is influenced by Christians who are biased and untrustworthy and can therefore be dismissed as just confirming a pre-conceived idea that Jesus must have existed. Jewish, agnostic or atheist scholars who also believe Jesus existed are somehow forced to tow the line because their careers are build around the idea Jesus existed and they will loose their jobs and funding if they find anything different.

The people whose opinion should be trusted are therefore most often atheists and non-experts who, free from the confines of scholarship, are the only people who can "see" (and accurately interpret) the few details of the evidence that has apparently evaded thousands of scholars and confirm that Jesus did not exist. Much time is spend on explaining that it is just a happy coincidence that this happens to support their atheism and they are completely unbiased.

Sometimes experts in other fields will agree with their interpretations, or experts will say something which can be interpreted to support mythicism. In that case these experts can certainly be trusted despite otherwise being in strong disagreement with mythicism.

Finally the mainstream view Jesus existed is just verging on collapsing with more and more experts being secretly convinced of the mythicism position but are to afraid to speak out.

Interestingly this is exactly the kind of thing creationists say about evolution but that is TOTALLY not the same

I think Richard Carrier and Raphael Lataster are the leading exponents of these views.. Carrier for instance wrote a huge book where he computed the chance that Jesus existed to be something like 0.08% lol.

anointed1

Bohm,

I agree with what you said: “The people whose opinion should be trusted are therefore most often atheists and non-experts who, free from the confines of scholarship, are the only people who can "see" (and accurately interpret) the few details of the evidence that has apparently evaded thousands of scholars and confirm that Jesus did not exist.”

For example, in the field service when someone asked me: “If Jesus really performed countless miracles, why none of them who were the beneficiaries of those miracles came in support for Jesus when he was tried under false charge—at least one of many who received resurrection from Jesus could have come forward to defend him, or to preach for him even after his death?

I could not give answer to him.

Biblical Scholar Claims The Story Of Jesus Christ Was A HOAX Designed To Control The People

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