"AMICUS CURIAE", the USA Supreme Court and the WTBS Inc. (page 2)

LDH

It simply signifies that the filer is aware that their own interests will be affected by the precedent of this decision.

So, if a third party does *not* file Amicus Curiae, are you saying they *don't* realize the implications of such suit?

Lisa

Jourles

Following are two separate letters, one for the elders, and one for the congregation. Notice anything missing? Read specifically the second paragraph from the BOE letter:

And this letter was read to all congregations:

Notice how the Society says that they want to "distinguish" themselves from Babylon the Great? The previous paragraphs leading up to that statement make you believe that "simplification" is key and that Jehovah is behind these "richly blessed...efforts to simplify." Of course, only a thinly-veiled effort is made to explain the reason for this new simplification. Here again, the Society uses code-language by saying, "many have noted that secular authorities..." We all know how they love to use those types of terms. "Some Christians have felt that it would be acceptable to their conscience..." Who are these "some?" Who are these "many?" Why not just come out and explain the true reason for the change? They must be afraid of the R&F researching which "Supreme Court decisions" required this change and then finding out they became a "friend of the court" for Swaggart.

Room 215

Crownboy, Euphemism, Let's not forget that this is an organization that will compel its members to shun any relative or friend who swims in a YMCA pool, cuts a church's lawn or buys a cake at a sidewalk church bake sale.... Their actions and statements for public consumption at the time were certainly intended to obfuscate the real reasons for the change to the donation system on literature placement. It was the ``worldly" media and the ``apostates" who shone light on the relevance of the Swaggart issue to the policy change.

Euphemism

So, if a third party does *not* file Amicus Curiae, are you saying they *don't* realize the implications of such suit?

No, but I'm saying that they have no other way of putting their position before the court. The court won't agree to hear them as a separate case, just because they don't want to be joined with 'false religion.'

Let's not forget that this is an organization that will compel its members to shun any relative or friend who swims in a YMCA pool, cuts a church's lawn or buys a cake at a sidewalk church bake sale

I believe that it is a d/fing offense to be hired by the church as a gardener, or to take a church contract if you own your own business. It is not a d/fing offense if you are an employee of someone else's business. The other two items, while discouraged, are not d/fing offenses.

I agree, the above restrictions are all ridiculous. But the key thing is that they all involve some sort of association, some sort of mutual exchange with a religious organization.

An amicus curiae brief does not involve any sort of association, exchange, or affiliation with any of the parties in the case. It is--or at least, can be--simply a petition to the Supreme Court to recognize the arguments and interests of the filer.

crownboy

An amicus curiae brief does not involve any sort of association, exchange, or affiliation with any of the parties in the case. It is--or at least, can be--simply a petition to the Supreme Court to recognize the arguments and interests of the filer.

Precisely, Euphemism. The Society did absolutely nothing wrong by filing the brief; they did not associate themselves with Jimmy Swaggert ministries anymore than the Mormons associated themselves with the JW's by filing a friend of the court brief in the recent Stratton case. This kind of "strange bedfellows" situation happens all the time because the only thing that counts isn't the case per se, but the constitutional underpinnings (in fact, the SCOTUS only grants certorari to cases that present complex constitutional questions, not to interesting or poignant scenarios). There was no actual endorsement of Jimmy Swaggert in anyway.

But as Jourles' letters point out, the real wrong came when the Society misrepresented their position to the congregations. They figured saying that they wanted to "simplify" their arrangement was nicer than saying that they wanted to practice tax avoidance, so they mislead people to keep the prestine image of the Society intact.

Obviously, the way in which the Society deals with people who join the YMCA, etc. is wrong, but that still doesn't mean that the Jimmy Swaggert brief was wrong, or that it compares to the UN situation in any significant way.

MacHislopp

Hello Everyone,

thanks for your appreciation and your interesting comments.

From MIZPAH

"...the Watchtower Society changed their whole program for distributing literature. It will never admit that it was primarily this case..."

Yes, many of us on this Board found out but the greater number of the

'R&F' has always been kept in the dark.

Ashitaka and Reborn 2002 : I do agree with you. We should keep informed as many as we can, with a particular attention to the newcomers of this Board.

From Zev :

"....The main problem is that the Society misrepresented the reason why they changed the donation policy, or at least they were less than forthright. "

Very true, nevertheless the real reason ist still unknown today by most JW's.

From Just2laws:

"...Legally and financially it was a wise course. Morally it was hypocritical. "

True, but as you and Mizpah have already written ... any similar action by a JW's ...and the JC

would have promptly dsf the " guilty" brother/sister for association and /or active support of the great harlot...Babylon.

I do also find Mizpah true life experience, a confirmation of the WTBS Inc. attitude, and her

directives/counsels applied by the local BOE. His final comment is really a gem:

"... to show how exacting the Watchtower requires its own members to obey the rules but feels free to pursue any course that protects its own business interests. "!!!

From waiting :

"..I remember being appalled at the WTBTS & Jimmy Swaggart when I found it (thanks to an apostate site )."

I did feel disgust for such a high level...should I say pharisiacal level of hypocrisy, on the part

of the WTBS Inc. which claims things like:

"The Watchtower is written to upbuild and bless... It does not provide some man's opinion, because what it is said is based on a Greater One's thought. "

(w. 58 7/1 p. 406 )

From Euphemism:

"It simply signifies that the filer is aware that -their own interests will be affected -

by the precedent of this decision. "

True, it is correct from the legal viewpoint, but is it morally correct, is it really a way

to act, following Jesus' example or is there infact a real demonstration of another legal

expedient to avoid ...loss of revenue, to avoid paying taxes ...???

To use a similar analogy - from the WTBS Inc. - : "...could your motives and actions be approved by Jesus Christ? " Finally if all these action were , from a Christian moral viewpoint, insignificant, why the WTBS Inc. has never informed, published something about?

And when they do publish something ...the most significant, revealing parts are left out.

So, it is with the aim of showing the real true attitude of the WTBS Inc,

that I have prepared more material , just as a reminder, to prove what

kind of association/support /counsel has been seeking - and still is - the

WTBS Inc. , which claims to be :

" Jehovah's visible channel of communication "

(w.59 10/1 pages 601-602 )

or if you prefer

" ...the channel of communication from heaven to earth ..."

(w. 60 7/15 page 439 'Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave ").

As a matter of fact, the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, Ney York, Inc. and in general the JW's have always claimed and taught publicly and in writing, to be against interfaith 'contamination' considering all other forms of religion other than themselves, "false" and collectively making up "Babylon The Great"

However, seeking to join a Forum/Conference/International Conference/Gathering/

Reunion/Meeting of sociologists, scholars and other religious organizations in a united effort for silencing secular and government critics through " CESNUR ", the WTBS Inc. has officially broken with their past history of shunning other religions and have opted to participate with the Church of Scientology, the Unification Church, the Transylvanian Society of Dracula , and other groups. It was only public awareness by anti-cult organizations and groups that

caused/forced their cancellation from this CESNUR 's 12th International Conference,

claiming "previous engagements."

This was the famous conference, from : http://www.cesnur.org/conferences/ces98_prog.htm

Here are the details of the 'Plenary Session' for Friday, September 11 1998

(from: http://www.cesnur.org/conferences/ces98_prog.htm )

Quote:

CESNUR's 12th International Conference

12° convegno internazionale del CESNUR

Friday September 11, 1998

Venerdì 11 settembre 1998

8.45 - 11 Plenary Session 12 / Sessione 12 (plenaria) President: Karel DOBBELAERE

BELIEF, BEHAVIOR, AND THE NEW AGE

CREDENZE, COMPORTAMENTI E NEW AGE

(simultaneous translation / traduzione simultanea)

Il New Age tra crisi e rinnovamento / New Age: Between Crisis and Renewal - Enzo PACE (Università di Padova)

The UFO-Contactees as a Category in the History of Religions / I contattisti dei dischi volanti come categoria nella storia delle religioni - Mikael ROTHSTEIN (University of Copenhagen)

The Raelians, UFO Religions and the Postmodern Condition / I raeliani, le religioni ufologiche e la condizione postmoderna - Susan PALMER e Bryan SENTES (Dawson College, Montreal)

Credenze, comportamenti e New Age tra i giovani in Italia / Belief, Behavior, and the New Age among Italian Teenagers - Franco GARELLI (Università di Torino)

The Aryan Christ of the New Age / Il Cristo "ariano" del New Age - Reender KRANENBORG (Free University of Amsterdam)

11,15 - 13 Plenary Session 13 / Sessione 13 (plenaria) President: Eileen BARKER

RELIGIOUS MINORITIES AND CULT CONTROVERSIES IN RUSSIA

MINORANZE RELIGIOSE E CONTROVERSIE SULLE "SETTE" IN RUSSIA

(simultaneous translation / traduzione simultanea)

New Religious Movements in Today's Russia - Boris FALIKOV (University of Moscow)

Court Cases Involving New Religious Movements in Russia - James RICHARDSON (University of Nevada, Reno)

Westen Anti-Cult Movement and the Russian Debate on New Religious Movements - Marat SHTERIN (Doctoral Candidate, London School of Economics)

The Anti-Cult Movement and Legal Practice in Russia - Galina KRYLOVA (Attorney, Moscow)

14,30 - 16,30 Session 14 / Sessione 14 Presidente: Pier Marco FERRARESI

SCUOLE ESOTERICHE

Origini della scuola kremmerziana - Ariella CASIMIRI (Torino)

Kremmerz e la Fratellanza di Myriam - Daniela BOVOLENTA (Torino)

Gli Arcana Arcanorum e la magia trasmutatoria: un'indagine - PierLuigi ZOCCATELLI (CESNUR, Verona)

Fidus (Hugo Höppener 1868-1948), un artista fra esoterismo e politica - Ermanno PAVESI (psichiatra, Siggenthal, Svizzera)

14,30 - 16,30 Session 15 / Session 15 President: Constance JONES

MSIA: THE MOVEMENT OF SPIRITUAL INNER AWARENESS IN SCHOLARLY PERSPECTIVE

The Origins and History of MSIA - Massimo INTROVIGNE (CESNUR, Torino)

MSIA's Religious Doctrine and Worldview - J. Gordon MELTON (Institute for the Study of American Religion, Santa Barbara, California)

MSIA and "Spiritual Plagiarism" - James R. LEWIS (Santa Barbara, California)

A Demographic Survey of the Membership of MSIA - Michela ZONTA (Ph. D. Candidate, University of California, Santa Barbara)

14,30 - 16,30 Session 16 / Sessione 16 Président: Jean-François MAYER

RELIGIONS DE GUÉRISON

Médecine, guérison et droit pénal - Olivier-Louis SÉGUY (Avocat, Paris)

Questions pour une sociologie des religions de guérison - Régis DERICQUEBOURG (Université de Lille)

Rapport entre salut et guérison dans quelques nouvelles religions japonaises - Louis HOURMANT (CNRS, Paris)

Occultisme et science médicale de la Renaissance à nos jours - Jean-Pierre LAURANT (Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Religieuses, Sorbonne, Paris)

Aux frontières du corps parlant, le sujet en question? - Guy-Robert ST.-ARNAUD (Université de Montréal)

14,30 - 16 Session 17 / Sessione 17 Presidente: Luigi BERZANO

IL CANDOMBLÉ DAL BRASILE ALL'EUROPA

Axé: Exú - Iemanjá - Teresinha BERNARDO (Università Cattolica di Sao Paulo)

Migrazioni religiose e processi di adattamento: il candomblé dal nuovo al vecchio mondo - Luisa FALDINI PIZZORNO (Università di Genova)

Le strade del candomblé e le entità della strada - Tiziana TONON (laureanda, Università di Genova)

16.15 - 17.45 Session 18 / Sessione 18 President: Régis DERICQUEBOURG

JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES: SOCIOLOGICAL AND LEGAL PERSPECTIVES

Jehovah's Witnesses in Latvia in the 20th Century - Nikandr GILLS (University of Latvia)

The Bulgarian Jehovah's Witnesses and the European Court of Human Rights - Alain GARAY (Attorney, Paris)

Jehovah's Witnesses: Patterns and Trends in Relationships with Public Authorities - Carolyn R. WAH (Attorney, Patterson, New Jersey)

Respondents: James N. PELLECHIA (Watch Tower Society, Brooklyn, New York) and Gajus GLOCKENTIN (Wachtturm Bibel und Traktat-Gesellschaft, Selters, Germany)

18-19 Session 19 / Sessione 19 President: James R. LEWIS

RAMTHA'S SCHOOL OF ANCIENT WISDOM

Finding Enlightenment: Ramtha's School of Ancient Wisdom - J. Gordon MELTON (Institute for the Study of American Religion, Santa Barbara, California) introduces his book

Ramtha, Androginy and Empowerment: Feminism, Romanticism, and the American Dream - Susan PALMER (Dawson College, Montreal)

16, 45 - 19 Session 20 / Sessione 20 President: Marat SHTERIN

ART, ESOTERICISM, AND THE NEW AGE

Arnold Schönberg: The Minority of the "Inconceivable God" - J. Edgar BAUER (University of Heidelberg)

The Relationship between Science Fiction and New Religious Movements - David V. BARRETT (Doctoral Student, London School of Economics)

The London Festival of Mind-Body-Spirit - Malcolm HAMILTON (University of Reading)

On Writing a Book on Damanhur - Jeff MERRIFIELD (Great Totham, Essex) with presentation of a video on Damanhur and introduction to the visit planned for September 12

16.45 - 18.10 Session 21 / Sessione 21 President: Jean-Pierre LAURANT

PERSPECTIVES ON ESOTERICISM

The "Asiatic Researches" (1788-1939) as an Early Source for Esoteric Interpretation of Tantrism in the West - Albertina NUGTEREN (Tilburg University)

Rudolf Steiner: Not a Member of Reuss' OTO - Peter R. KOENIG (Zurich)

Creating a New Religion in an Age of Unrest: Aleister Crowley and Politics - Marco PASI (Doctoral Candidate, Ecole Pratique des Hautes Etudes en Sciences Religieuses, Sorbonne, Paris)

Science and Esoterism in the Contemporary World - Francisca Veronica CAVALCANTE (Post-Graduate Student, University of Sao Paulo)

16.45 - 19 Session 22 / Sessione 22 Presidente: Massimo INTROVIGNE

MINORANZE RELIGIOSE DI ORIGINE GIAPPONESE

Stato e minoranze religiose in Giappone: un approccio storico-costituzionale - Pasquale POLICASTRO (Università di Lublino)

Dottrina ed etica della "Perfect Liberty" nella riconquista del ruolo femminile tradizionale - Beatriz MUNIZ DE SOUZA (Università Cattolica di Sao Paulo)

Il Reiscio: l'azione perturbatrice degli spiriti secondo l'insegnamento di Sukyo Mahikari - Paolo MAGGI (Brescia) - con una risposta di Mario AMBROSETTI (Federazione Nazionale Sukyo Mahikari, Varese)

18.20 - 19 Sessione 23 / Session 23 Presidente: Tadeusz DOKTOR

ABOUT TRANSCENDENTAL MEDITATION

Mikael ROTHSTEIN (University of Copenhagen) discusses his book Belief Transformations. Some Aspects of the Relation Between Science and Religion in Transcendental Meditation (TM) and the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON) (Aarhus University Press). With a response by Roberto BAITELLI (Director of the MERU Center of Milan).

20

BANQUET "THE POLITICS OF RELIGIOUS LIBERTY"

BANCHETTO "LA POLITICA DELLA LIBERTA' RELIGIOSA"

Raimonda CASARI, State Legislator, Presiding and Introducing

Raimonda CASARI, consigliere regionale, presidenza e introduzione

The Hon. Domenico MASELLI, MP, La nuova legge italiana sulla libertà religiosa / The New Italian Law on Religious Liberty

(The Hon. Domenico Maselli introduced the Italian Government's draft law on religious liberty - L'on.le Domenico Maselli è stato relatore del progetto di legge del governo italiano sulla libertà religiosa )

The Hon. Ernesto CACCAVALE, MEP, The European Parliament and the Question of Cults / Il Parlamento Europeo e il problema delle "sette"

End of Quote ...

Remember that I've only showed the Friday's agenda. For the other

days you'll be surprised to see the ...organizations.

and from : http://www.hrwf.net/newhrwf/html/europe1999.html

France, Belgium Severely Criticized Again at U.S. Congressional Hearing

Cesnur Website http://www.cesnur.org (10.06.1999) - On June 8, 1999 the U.S. Joint Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe held a new hearing on "Religious Freedom in Western Europe: Religious Minorities and Growing Government Intolerance", hearing as witnesses Willy Fautré of Human Rights Without Frontiers, attorney Alain Garay of Paris, and Pastor Louis Charles DeMeo, leader of an independent Baptist group blacklisted as a cult in France.

This was part of an ongoing investigation of continuing religious intolerance in Western Europe, and CESNUR's Executive Director Massimo Introvigne had testified before the same Commission at a previous 1998 briefing. A number of international scholars who had just participated in CESNUR 99 conference in Pennsylvania also attended the June 8 hearing. In turn Karen Lord, Counsel for Freedom of Religion of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe, and Jeremy Gunn, of the newly instituted Office of International Religious Freedom at the U.S. Department of State, were guest speakers at the CESNUR 99 conference, and told participants how important CESNUR's role was in first alerting U.S. agencies about religious intolerance prevailing in some Western European countries.

Of particular interest at the June 8 hearing was a discussion of discrimination in the workplace of members of both the Jehovah's Witnesses and of the Baptist group pastored by Rev. DeMeo. The discussion then focused on the causes of the peculiar situation prevailing in France and Belgium (while Italy, Scandinavia, the United Kingdom, and the Netherlands were offered as examples of religious tolerance). In a lively discussion with the witnesses and on the basis of data offered by them, Chairman Smith concluded that two influences explain why intolerance of minority religions is particularly widespread in France and French-speaking Belgium. Firstly, the anti-cult and often simply anti-religious lobbying efforts of continental Freemasonry (a secular humanist brand of Freemasonry which is not in communion with mainline U.S. and British Freemasonry). Secondly, the strong residual presence in French-speaking culture of socialist and communist elements, both anti-American and anti-religious. Efforts by an Eastern Europe anti-cultists may thus use developments in France as evidence that democratic countries in the West have an anti-cult policy similar to Russia and other post-Communist countries.

Chairman Smith was particularly severe with the French Mission to Fight Cults and ridiculed efforts by its president to attack one of the members of the U.S. delegation that visited France as "part of a dangerous international totalitarian cults", while she is a member of a small U.S. Christian congregation. The French attitude is "intolerable", Smith said, and it would be a serious mistake for France (and Belgium) to think that this is a minor matter for the U.S., while it stands "at the top" of U.S. human rights concerns.

also from : http://www3.uj.edu.pl/confer/columbia98/program.html

"the PROTECTION of RELIGIOUS MINORITIES " :

religious freedom & human rights in post-communist europe

MARCH 16 - 18, 1998

LOCATION:
conference center

wawel castel 5

krakow, POLAND

(48-12) 422-5155 / 422-1950

.......................

tuesday, march 17 1998,

SESSION III: RELIGIOUS MINORITIES AND TRANSNATIONAL ACTORS

10:45-12:00 Workshop One: The Role of Inter-Governmental Organizations

JOHAN VAN DER VYVER, Chair

Emory University Law School

ALAIN GARAY, Presenter

Court of Appeals of Paris

The Judicial Precedents of the European Court of Human Rights and Religious Freedom

CAROLYN WAH, Presenter

Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York

European Parliamentary Enquete Commissions - Justification of a Two-Tiered System of Religious Freedoms

JEREMY GUNN, Presenter

JFK Review Board

Protection of Religious Minorities and the OSCE

end of quote

and finally :

about the sponsers :

The CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF HUMAN RIGHTS at Columbia University was established in 1978 to promote the teaching and research of human rights in their national and international contexts. The Center's activities cover all disciplines and address both theoretical and policy questions.

The PROGRAM ON RELIGION, HUMAN RIGHTS AND RELIGIOUS FREEDOM was initiated at the Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Fall of 1995 to respond to new challenges and opportunities to promote collaboration between the world’s religions and the contemporary human rights movement. A major goal of this training and research program for religious leaders, human rights activists, and scholars is to promote interaction between religious communities and the international human rights movement, as well as to enhance concern for religious freedom and religious tolerance. The aim is to help develop self-perpetuating institutions promoting such interaction in countries around the world. The Program is funded by Pew Charitable Trusts.

The HARRIMAN INSTITUTE at Columbia University is the oldest academic center in the United States devoted to the interdisciplinary study of the Russian empire, the Soviet Union and the post-communist states. Part of the Harriman Institute, THE EAST CENTRAL EUROPEAN CENTER at Columbia University was established in 1954 to promote the study of the countries lying between Germany and the Soviet Union and between the Baltic and the Aegean Seas.

The JAGIELLONIAN UNIVERSITY HUMAN RIGHTS CENTER (JUHRC) , founded in 1993, is a volunteer-run organization working under the auspices of the Jagiellonian Faculty of Law and Administration. The work of JUHRC is primarily focused on the areas of human rights education and cost-free legal assistance provided by a group of approximately 20 Jagiellonian law students.

The JAGIELLONIAN UNIVERSITY RESEARCH CENTER ON JEWISH HISTORY AND CULTURE IN POLAND was established in 1986 as an initiative of Professor Józef A. Gierowski. The goal of the Center is to conduct interdisciplinary research, train academic specialists and provided educational programs related to Jewish history and culture in Poland.

The language of the conference is English. Opinions expressed at the conference do not necessarily represent those of the sponsors or The Pew Charitable Trusts.

END of Quotes

°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

I do hope that this material will we a useful reminder.

More and updated to come.

Greetings, James Charles MacHislopp

"Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas " (Ammonio, Vita d ' Aristotele)

mizpah

I think the difficulty of agreement is in the viewpoint. The legal aspect is perfectly clear and understandable. Of course, the Watchtower had a right to take this action for its own interest. I think we are all in agreement with that.

But it is the Watchtower's religious aspect that is in question. Over the years, it stressed to all of us that we should not do things that even "give appearance of sin." Thus, many brothers were thrown into a quandry for having the slightest association with "Babylon the Great." So, many of us were shocked when it supported this effort of the Jimmy Swaggart Ministries in its legal battle. It gave the appearance of association, legal or otherwise. Perhaps, the Watchtower itself was sensitive to the issue when it quickly withdrew.

Maybe it is making "a mountain out of a mole hill." But for us who had to digest all of the Watchtower's rules and regulations over the years while it pontificated about the dangers of being part of "Babylon the Great" the mole hill is a mountain!

Euphemism

I can respect that, mizpah.

For myself, when I was a witness, I always appreciated examples of this sort of action by the Watchtower, because I saw it as evidence of a softening; and I could use it in arguments with other witnesses to show that we could have normal legal or business dealings with worldly institutions.

I suspect that you were a witness at an earlier time than I; a more conservative time, and a time when far more emphasis was put on separateness from Babylon the Great. Perhaps if I had grown up in a more conservative time, or a more conservative congregation, I might feel similarily.

Personally, however, I do think I've shown clearly above how what the WT did wasn't wrong even by the rules it applied to its members. Say that some industrial accident damaged various pieces of local property, including a witness' house and church. Would the WTS say that the Witness couldn't band together with his neighbors--including the church--to sue the factory that caused the accident? I don't think so. And yet, being co-plaintiffs on a lawsuit actually involves more co-operation and association than merely filing an amicus curiae brief.

bluesapphire

to protect unpopular individuals from retaliation--and

their ideas from suppression--at the hand of an intolerant society."

This is the purpose of amicus curae that I found interesting. The whole reason for this suit was so that the JWs could continue deliver their unpopular message without danger of being suppressed by an intolerant society. They demand their rights while keeping the same rights from their members. I as an individual would love to deliver my message about the Watchtower Society to my sister without being suppressed by an intolerant society as well.

And the Mormons go right along with it! But you know and I know that the Watchtower would love to shut the Mormons down.

And another true case scenario is my own husband who was required to turn down an excellent opportunity to make a great profit in his painting business. But he turned it down because the elders wouldn't let him due to it was painting a Catholic Church.

johnny cip

i am sickened by all the posters here who say the wt had the right to surport jimmy swagart. i'll say no more............john

"AMICUS CURIAE", the USA Supreme Court and the WTBS Inc.

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"AMICUS CURIAE", the USA Supreme Court and the WTBS Inc.