Are congregations in Spain suffering an increase in banking fees since Watchtower 'seized' their bank savings?

by jwleaks 17 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • jwleaks
    jwleaks

    Remember a few years ago Watchtower literally 'siezed' all individual congregation bank savings around the world above what was needed to cover basic kingdom hall monthly expenses?

    A new March 30, 2017, BOE letter has just gone out to congregations in Spain, which, more or less, explains that congregations bank account funds no longer entitle congregations to reduced banking fees. (See copy of actual paragraph below.)


    The letter asks "What is the cause?" Note that the very next sentence does not actually answer the question but rather makes a general comment on what the reader already knows about the world of finance. It says "As you know, sitnificant changes have taken place in the overall financial situation." It does not explain what these changes are. It could be anything. The rest of the letter explains that 1,900 individual congregational bank acoounts, which were drained of funds, no longer qualify for zero or low fees.

    As if the JWs in Spain don't have enough problems as it is.

    March 30, 2017 TO THE BODIES OF ELDERS, CIRCUIT OVERSEERS AND ASSEMBLY HALL SERVANTS THAT HAVE ACCOUNTS IN BANCO BBVA Re: New Agreement with BBVA for 2017

  • Hecce
    Hecce

    Odd that this letter was sent in English.

  • darkspilver
    darkspilver

    It looks interesting - but I'm not familiar with banking in Spain and it depends with what you are comparing it with.

    But a basic sniff around throws up the following which seems to be a TYPICAL observation:

    Bank charges in Spain are quite high and free banking is very rare. It's quite common to be charged for everything, including withdrawing money from ATMs. When using ATMs you need to check what the charges are as they vary between systems.

    http://www.idealspain.com/pages/finances/banks.htm

    Congregation accounts should still be running with a regular balance of around 5,000 to 7,000 Euros - which isn't bad - it is also unlikely they will 'default' and go overdrawn - they also probably have a lot less transactions going on than a typical personal account?

    So the next question is what do the congregations have to pay for - and how many payments do they make.

    I note that you have not included a copy of the attached banking agreement showing the costs (and ideally the previous agreement showing the previous costs)

    BTW there is also the following paragraph in the letter:

    A favorable aspect of the new agreement is that all the conditions included are centrally registered for all of our accounts. Until now, some of the conditions had to be recorded manually at one location and another. When this was not done, commissions were often charged outside the terms of the agreement, and then it was necessary to request the manual refunding of these. In many cases the refund was not possible or was only attained with great efforts. This same situation recurred again and again, until the conditions were registered permanently at all those locations. Now, as we indicate, the bank has confirmed that all the conditions of the agreement have been recorded in a centralized way for all our accounts. We believe that this technical advancement will avoid the greater part of the incidents.

    It seems that the individual banking branches are much more 'independently' run, even within the same company, than what might be expected in other countries.

    There is zero costs for transfering monies between WT entities - ie between congregations (for example to a KH Operating Account when a KH is shared) or sending contributions etc etc to Bethel.

    If there is a cost in paying bills (such as utility bills) then, if the congregation has funds, what is to stop them paying anually rather than quarterly?

    Also - as long as there is a robust audit trial (with two signatures on everything), what about using donated cash to pay bills - though the US S-27 says you shouldn't.

    Bank charges are interesting - Spain is one of the PIGS? -surely high bank charges ENCOURAGES residents to use a cash-based system? And a cash-based system is much more open to tax-avoidance issues - and I believe the BIG issue in Greece at the moment - to help stop tax avoidance - is the requirement that bank payments be made for paying wages, NOT cash.

  • alanv
    alanv

    Why cant the congregations keep a bigger balance if they need to, so that they dont incur bank charges? Just get balance higher by withholding donations to the org for a month or two. Or get some of the money back that the org are holding.

  • darkspilver
    darkspilver

    congregations keep a bigger balance

    but isn't 5,000 to 7,000 euros ALREADY a fairly big running cash balance to have in a non-interest bearing current account?

  • darkspilver
  • Hecce
    Hecce

    Gracias

  • sir82
    sir82

    Odd that this letter was sent in English.

    There are lots of English congregations in Spain.

    Gotta love it.

    "Send us all of your money, except for a pittance we deign to allow you to keep."

    "What's that? The bank is now charging you higher fees due to having a low balance? Wow, who'd a thunk it? Damn Satan's system! Oh well, keep warm and well fed brothers, nothing we can do about it."

    My impression is that European JWs, perhaps especially Spanish JWs, aren't as likely to just docilely accept the WTS explanation. Not sure what they would actually do, but I'm quite sure there are hundreds of elders shaking their heads as we here are doing.

  • AverageJoe1
    AverageJoe1

    The banks in this country are a joke. They do indeed charge you for almost everything unless you jump through a series of hoops. If you draw money out of the hole-in-the-wall (ATM for you Americans) that doesn't belong to your bank, then you are charged anywhere from 1€ to 5€. Unicaja is one of the worst and they charge you for transfers even when you do them yourself via Internet!

    The letter is legit as I sent it to Wifibandit. He's got the attached commissions sheet too.

  • AverageJoe1

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