Ghosts and Hades: Another Watchtower Deception

by metatron 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  metatron

  What did the Jews in Jesus' day think about the soul and Hades?

  If you read the Watchtower, you might think that they dutifully followed JW teaching

  and had no idea about immortal souls or ghosts or punishment in Hades.

  Historically, this Watchtower view is utter nonsense. Josephus clearly states

  that both Pharisees and Essenes believed in souls that survived the death

  of the body. Belief that the wicked were punished in Hades was also held

  (Wars of the Jews chapter VIII section 11-14 book two).

  As to ghosts, the New World Translation sidesteps the matter in Luke 24:38

  by using the word "spirit". Yet, the context clearly cries out for "ghost"

  as a correct translation shows (Jerusalem Bible "In this state of alarm and

  fright ,they thought they were seeing a ghost. But he said ......... "a ghost has

  no flesh and bones as you can see I have")

  Long before Jesus walked the earth, the Hebrews had their own "ghost story"

  as all ancient peoples did --- in 1 Samuel 28. Do you really think that ancient

  Hebrew included QUOTATION MARKS around the word "Samuel" ? The

  same question applies to the Greek Septuagint - they aren't there and the

  WATCHTOWER INSERTED THEM. The Jews took this account at face value

  which is why the author of Eccesiasticus said about Samuel ( chapter 46)

  "And after he fell asleep he prophesied again, warning the king of his death"

  In Jesus' day, they had no printing presses - and few books, as we know them.

  Jesus was forced to speak in parables because there was no other effective

  means of spreading a message widely, especially amoung the poor, unlikely

  to possess "scrolls".

  Therefore, if he talked about souls or Hades or future punishments

  (as in the Rich man and Lazarus), the people could only interpret those

  things as their culture taught them - and any ambiguity on the matter

  would simply reinforce their primitive notions about ghosts, wicked people

  getting fried and the virtuous souls getting rewarded. It's just that simple.

  You never learn about this historical background of belief in the narrow

  little world of the Watchtower. All contradictions are neatly hidden, covered

  over, and tidied up. Like the Wizard of Oz, "Pay no attention to the man

  behind the curtain!" serves them well.

  metatron
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  Robdar

  Metatron,

  Very good points. I have nothing to add except to say I agree.

  Robyn
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  figliodidante

  I brought this issue up with my mother some time ago with exactly the same line of logic... why would Jesus deliberately confuse his disciples by illustrating his teachings with superstitions? I was reminded how often they have recourse to "Jehovah" as the God of Love on this doctrine, while greedily withdrawing that same love when it comes to disgusting apostate dogs!

  Jesse
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  Inquiry

  Excellent post metatron..

  Yet another belief I need to re evaluate because the WT doctrine still exists in the dark recesses of my mind...

  Thanks for posting that...

  Inq
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  Mr. Kim

  Metatron,

  Good post. Put some thought into it huh? You are hired!
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  Double Edge

  Great post. I'll question my JW friend.... (hehe... I love it when there's something 'new' to talk about)...
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  freeman

  Metatron,

  I just loved what you said here:

  It's just that simple.

  You never learn about this historical background of belief in the narrow

  little world of the Watchtower.

  You are so right, and this is no accident, there is a sinister reason the Tower of darkness never fully informs their followers.

  JWs are led to believe by the Tower that they are practically scholars and unfortunately for the most part they believe it. Of course the narrow JW point of view never takes into account the all-essential background which makes all the difference in the world in correctly understanding what is being said.

  Take for example the preaching work. There are two forms of ministries, public and private. The meaning of the public and private forms of ministry as described by the apostle Paul is deliberately twisted by the Tower 180 degrees. Paul said “ I did not hold back from teaching you publicly, and from house to house (NWT) or more correctly, “in your homes” in just about any other translation. Now without knowing the all important customs and background of the people being spoken to, it is easy for the Dark Tower to twist these words to mean you must knock on stranger’s doors. This is total BULLSHIT!

  That is NOT what Paul was talking about here. They had no doorknockers back then! You did not just knock uninvited on the doors of strangers in the Middle East back then, even now doing so would be considered highly disrespectful. The public ministry was in fact facilitated in the synagogues or other public places. The housework Paul is referring to here was in the private homes of believers and absolutely not in the homes of strangers and unbelievers.

  Did you know that this meeting in private homes was considered a form of worship? As a JW did you know this? Also they often shared a meal that was part of their worship. Did you know that? If one was removed form the association of these Christians for serious wrongdoing, such former members were now banned from this form of worship, “not even sharing a meal with such a one”. Also you would not greet a former unrepentant member with the “holy kiss”, “not even saying a greeting”.

  Yes you could still do business with such a one, still have normal human relationships with such a one, but you had to treat him now as if he were a non-believer, like a “man of the nations” and not as a brother. You could eat with him, have dinner with him however he is banned from the worship meals.

  How different things are when one knows the historical perspective and the customs and beliefs of the people being referred to.

  Thank you Metatron, I really enjoyed your post.

  Freeman
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  gumby

  Josephus clearly states

  that both Pharisees and Essenes believed in souls that survived the death

  of the body. Belief that the wicked were punished in Hades was also held

  (Wars of the Jews chapter VIII section 11-14 book two).

  The true to fashion Watchtower response would be Jesus and his diciples denounces both groups mentioned, as they held to teachings of men. They would say both groups mentioned taught things contrary to gods laws. They might agree that yes the early diciples held to some supersitious views........but they were "infant Christians" who were somewhat influenced by their surroundings and needed to learn more.

  The fact is ...Jesus gave no long speech's concerning doctrine on various matters, and how his followers should believe. His efforts were spent on the importance of accepting himself as "the way",........and not on particular beliefs........especially whether the soul lives on or not.

  Gumby
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  Room 215

  Interesting post Meta; it may well be that the Jews, or certain of their sects, held to these beliefs; it's quite another to suggest that they are supported by the Bible. It would seem that the preponderance of scriptural evidence would argue against that, and that in this one aspect of their theology, JWs appear to be on reasonably firm ground.
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  Garnet

  What an excellant post, I have always questioned the beliefs.

  I was born and raised Catholic and convereted when I was 18, since leaving, I am so confused on what to think. Part of me goes back to my Catholic background and the other part of me stops myself from thinking any other way but "WTS" way. I have been "out" for almost 4 months now, my thinking is starting to revert back to what it was before. Even though I was Catholic, I was not a "strict" member, my grandmother, who went all the time, was one of the most open minded people I have ever met, she always told me to believe in God and he would show me the way, not man or organization.

  again, great post!

  Garnet