When a crime is commited?

by Drifting Away 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  Drifting Away

  I responded to someone on another thread, but would love to know this answer.

  If a victim adult or child goes to elders and claims they were abused, don't they have to have clergy confidentiality? So I was told that they encourage the victim to contact authorities , and they contact Bethel, but arent there hands tied if the victim does not want to go to authorities? An elder made the comment to me once. That it would be so much easier if there was a law that said when they hear of a crime committed they must report to authorities. So I guess any religion has this same issue with clergy confidentiality?
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  sir82

  Not sure what country you are in, but in the US, there are some states which mandate that even clergy must report child abuse when they learn of it. In other states, it is not mandated.

  That is the primary reason why US elders are instructed to "call Bethel legal first" when they hear any allegation of child abuse - to determine whether the elder lives in a mandated reporting state or not.
  
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  shepherdless

  I agree with Sir82. I add the following:

  Do they have penitent clergy confidentiality? Depends on country, and in some countries, which state you are in. Laws protecting penitent clergy privilege only exist in some countries, and tend to be broader and more defined in various states of USA than anywhere else in the world. Even in USA, pertinent clergy privilege does not seem to extend to anything much further than a penitent confession. It certainly would not cover a victim accusation.

  Do they encourage the victim to go to the authorities? From the ARC, the answer would appear to be a clear no.

  Are their hands tied if the victim does not want to go to the authorities? In some jurisdictions now, there are mandatory reporting requirements where children are concerned. It would be a criminal offence not to report.
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  LevelThePlayingField

  The elders should already know if they are in a U.S. state which has mandatory reporting laws. If they are really shepherds then they ought to know. But they really don't care that much about that to be honest.
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  RichardHaley

  ... also the confidentiality is broken the minute they tell another elder or call the branch. They don't do it but the victim should always be encouraged to notify the proper authorities first. In California it is mandatory to report and has been for a long time. However the branch is always called first anyways.
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  ab.ortega

  Is there a list of what states have the mandated reporting?
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  Drifting Away

  Good question ab. ortega
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  Anony Mous

  @ab.ortega: https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/systemwide/laws-policies/statutes/manda

  In some states, anyone suspecting child abuse is supposed to report

  In most states institutions are required to report, which is what JW would fall under since they are required to call back to WT Legal and they organize activities where children are encouraged to participate (preaching, baptism etc), the entire JW organization would legally be considered a single institution (so far not really challenged in courts).

  In some states clergy are required to report even when clergy-penitentiary privileges apply HOWEVER JW elders have been convicted in court because there is no clergy-penitentiary privilege in JW proceedings. Therefore they would fall under either personal or institutional reporting regardless of clergy laws.

  Please note that the state/feds would convict the ELDER and anyone else involved in the JW proceedings.
  
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  Vidiot

  I was somewhat dismayed to learn that my JW mom is of the opinion that the WTS is completely forthcoming and transparent with regards to the reporting of criminal activity (by JWs) to the secular authorities.

  I suspect that most loyal JWs share this mistaken view, and what's more, the Org does little to dissuade them of this.
• 

  Anders Andersen

  As for the confessional confidentiality privilege:

  • Criminals confess child abuse and should be reported.
  • Victims don't confess child abuse, they report a crime.
  • A judicial committee is not setup for confession, but for investigation and judging.
  • In many cases the elders initiate an investigation of some kind, and whomever they speak to didn't come to freely confess their sins
  • Most important: even when a criminal freely confesses to a single elder, his JW confession will not be kept confidential. Confidential means 'between you and me only'. Every JW knows that a confession with 1 elder is shared with a 2nd one. Then 3 others are involved for the judicial committee. Then they call Bethel with specifics about your case. The CO may be involved, and 3 or 4 more elders in a appeal committee. And finally all notes are archived and a form about the offender is sent tot Bethel and archived there as well. In JW land no confessional confidentiality exists at all. But JW leadership claim it exists when they failed to comply with mandatory reporting laws.

  I have always sort of thought the whole confessional secrets stuff to be strange for any churches. For lawyers I get it: you have to be able to prepare a defense properly. For medics, well at least they bring some real benefits to the table (as in people's health is improved).

  For clergy... What do they offer? They make you feel better about yourself, help you handle your guilty conscience after a crime by offering an ear to confess to. Well guess what, you could always confess to the police to actually do something useful with your guilty conscience.

  (End of rant)

  Of course things are not so black and white...