by cofty 75 Replies latest social current
As a Brit, I try and keep out of American issue threads , but this is one that has affected the whole world, we have had demos too.
Only a naive person would believe wholeheartedly all the eulogies about him, but it is wrong to blacken his name with insults. What would it matter anyway? If he was the worst person on earth, does that justify police brutality and homicide?
I thought USA was a country ruled by law.
The protesters have an issue that needs solving ....the looters want locking up.
If he was the worst person on earth, does that justify police brutality and homicide?
No.
See the first words of my OP.
(Said this a few times now)
Black communities will fight to the death for black victims even if they are deplorable human beings. She is spot on.
Why does it seem they only do it when they are deplorable human beings?
It seems like a stupid tactic, here's why:
Every time you learn about a black man on TV, he has a long and ugly criminal record. Yet is out and about and committing more crime while we're told that they think he's a great guy, one of their best. It completely goes against the narrative that black men are arrested for being black - it's more that they have unlimited "get out of jail free" cards. It also gives the impression that their scale of good <-> bad behavior is way out of whack.
The leaders of these people only care about cases they can use for political ends, that means a black corpse and white cop, regardless of situation and circumstances.
BLM seem to have zero clue on marketing and image. All you see of black people when BLM are involved are criminal thugs, looters and gangs of blacks beating individual white people (sometimes to death).
And they expect support? Kneeling? They can fuck off.
If their cause is "police violence", they should be 1. not about race and 2. protesting all (and often significantly worse) cases of excessive force used by police.
BLM lack credibility and it's 100% their own doing. They have done more to harm to the plight of black people than the modern day KKK.
Thankfully, there are people like Candace (also Larry Elder, and others) who can speak for the people in the black community that don't believe the BLM crap, the ones the media ignore.
If he was the worst person on earth, does that justify police brutality and homicide?
I would not object to anyone killing the worst person on earth. I wouldn't limit it to just the top guy either.
Any system needs checks and balances of course, which is why we have police + a legal system instead of simply Judge Dredd stye vigilante hit-squads. The problem is that people expect the system to be perfect all the time with no accidents, mistakes or bad actors. That's never going to happen. The reality is that the number of times things go wrong is incredibly small given the huge number of interactions that occur each year.
The claims that black people are disproportionately impacted when the system isn't perfect? Totally unsupported by statistics.
The calls to defund the police and do away with them completely? Utterly insane. Then you would have individuals forming militia to protect their communities.
First off, speaking as a retired police officer, once the handcuffs are on, the fight is over. First rule of arrest. What happened to George Floyd was unacceptable, but to turn the man into a saint and martyr is ridiculous. What has bothered me as much as the murder of this man is the absolute disregard for facts. The very people who love to trot out facts and statistics to support their agendas are completely disregarding the same for this so called epidemic of violence against people of color. Look at the facts as presented by the very liberal Washington Post. They have been tracking police killings for the past 5 years. In 2019, approximately 1000 people were killed by police. 230 black people were in that number, of which all but 10 were armed. Any loss of life is tragic, but these numbers show that there isn't a systemic culture in policing to foment violence against black people. The trend line for fatal shootings is actually showing a decrease in the number of black people shot by police. A Harvard study showed police were LESS likely to shoot a black man than other races. More black people were killed last weekend in Chicago than the entire number of unarmed black people killed by police during the entire year of 2019. This is not a defense of killing anyone, but we can't be burning our country down over a false narrative!
The leaders of these people only care about cases they can use for political ends, that means a black corpse and white cop, regardless of situation and circumstances.
@Simon - That is very true. If you take a closer look at all communities, you will find similarities of people taking advantage of a situation to further their own agenda.
All you see of black people when BLM are involved are criminal thugs, looters and gangs of blacks beating individual white people (sometimes to death).
That is a bit of an exaggeration. In the current situation, I see people of all races losing their minds and looting under the banner of BLM.
The claims that black people are disproportionately impacted when the system isn't perfect? Totally unsupported by statistics.
This statement is correct but it totally misses the point. It is not about statistics but about perception. The video footage of how the guy was killed made for uncomfortable viewing and it changes people's perception of reality. You are making a rational statement to an emotional situation.
Remember the expression " De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est translates to "Of the dead nothing but good is to be said" or don't speak ill of the dead.
There is the social taboo of speaking ill of the dead especially when it is so soon. Most people are aware of George Floyd not being a saint.
Apparently mother Theresa was no saint but when she died, that wasn't the time to throw statistics on believers. The time for that came later.
@Blues Broters put it nicely
Only a naive person would believe wholeheartedly all the eulogies about him, but it is wrong to blacken his name with insults. What would it matter anyway? If he was the worst person on earth, does that justify police brutality and homicide?
You have been making your point about the "glass is half full" and others are saying the "glass is half empty"
If you take a closer look at all communities, you will find similarities of people taking advantage of a situation to further their own agenda.
Then you have a complaint with the media, because what I see it's predominantly black people.
That is a bit of an exaggeration. In the current situation, I see people of all races losing their minds and looting under the banner of BLM.
"under the banner of BLM" is the key part. They provide the cover, they own it. Most of the looting and violence you see on TV is of black people.
This statement is correct but it totally misses the point. It is not about statistics but about perception.
And that's why nothing can change and people will simply continue to be unhappy, discontent and angry. It's the wrong message to tell people something is unfair when it isn't. But then that is the point, to make people angry so they can be controlled.
You are making a rational statement to an emotional situation.
More people should be rational and less emotional, especially black people - it would benefit them far more than protesting, rioting and looting.
You have been making your point about the "glass is half full" and others are saying the "glass is half empty"
Technically, the glass is always completely full ... just not of liquid. But I don't know what you mean by this, the point is to make things better. Going along with behavior that actively makes things worse seems like something only someone who hates black people would want to do.
Technically, the glass is always completely full ... just not of liquid. But I don't know what you mean by this, the point is to make things better.
What I meant by the "glass being hall full and half empty" is, people are looking at the same situation from a different angle.
Initially you said this
"All you see of black people when BLM are involved are criminal thugs, looters "
and then in your response you said
"Then you have a complaint with the media, because what I see it's predominantly black people."
There is a little difference there "predominantly"
What is the solution to the current crisis? How can you make things better?
Should there be an independent open investigation after every death involving the police and should the idea of "Qualified Immunity" be removed from the police?
Will that ease the perception of police brutality?
More people should be rational and less emotional, especially black people - it would benefit them far more than protesting, rioting and looting.
What benefit do you believe they will gain by not protesting?
(I am not talking about the rioting and looting as that is obvious)
Cofty - I totally agree. My point is NOT about justified protest against police violence. It is the uncritical way the entire world is lionising a deplorable human being.
I totally agree with you too!!
There is a little difference there "predominantly"
Those two statements don't contradict. You see black people over-represented in rioting and looting. I don't say that all the people are black, because some of the ones destroying things and being violent are Antifa / white. But when you see a store and tons of people pour out clutching their stolen goods, they are pretty much all black, every time.
This is what BLM does - it reinforces the view that black people loot and rob, because every time you see BLM news it's the same old shit.
What benefit do you believe they will gain by not protesting?
They could spend the time on productive pursuits, or perhaps protest the massively higher number of blacks killed by not-white-cops.
But of course they won't, because BLM doesn't give a shit about black lives or coming up with workable solutions, they just want to wallow in grievances.
